Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[DW101]

I started with home-made cheap-shit cables - that gave an improvement.

This whole recent grounding / power conditioning / isolation discussion is very interesting, having myself become fully aware of the importance of overall power 'quality' only two or three years ago.

Grounding: I'm currently at the 'cheap-shit cables' stage, on both chassis grounds and unused electrical inputs & outputs, and hear the benefit. I had been wondering about better cables, now its firmly on the 'to do' list, along with more investigating of how my house's grounding is implemented / room for improvement.

Power conditioning / battery supplies: Passing on 'internet wisdom' rather that actually hearing it for myself, my understanding is that in general battery based supplies can be limiting of dynamics? Also need to consider what noise the BMS itself introduces. I was pleased to hear that Taiko's upcoming BMS has (of course!) addresses both issues. I currently use active noise control on all mains and some DC supplies (the ones where I don't have an LPS offering <1microVolt noise levels), which squirt a small noise cancelling signal onto the supply rather than replace it entirely. I've been pleased with this approach, but then again active noise control on my dedicated 2 * 30A (power amp & Extreme) & 2* 20A (separate digital & analog 'sides') was my first meaningful foray into this area so I haven't heard any alternatives.

I moved home about 18 months ago from the UK to Canada, which illustrated how much more noise was on my supply in the UK. So the local specific mains situation will undoubtedly be different for everyone.

Thanks to the community for the knowledge sharing and illuminating discussions on here!

 

[Nils]

This whole recent grounding / power conditioning / isolation discussion is very interesting, having myself become fully aware of the importance of overall power 'quality' only two or three years ago.

Grounding: I'm currently at the 'cheap-shit cables' stage, on both chassis grounds and unused electrical inputs & outputs, and hear the benefit. I had been wondering about better cables, now its firmly on the 'to do' list, along with more investigating of how my house's grounding is implemented / room for improvement.

Power conditioning / battery supplies: Passing on 'internet wisdom' rather that actually hearing it for myself, my understanding is that in general battery based supplies can be limiting of dynamics? Also need to consider what noise the BMS itself introduces. I was pleased to hear that Taiko's upcoming BMS has (of course!) addresses both issues. I currently use active noise control on all mains and some DC supplies (the ones where I don't have an LPS offering <1microVolt noise levels), which squirt a small noise cancelling signal onto the supply rather than replace it entirely. I've been pleased with this approach, but then again active noise control on my dedicated 2 * 30A (power amp & Extreme) & 2* 20A (separate digital & analog 'sides') was my first meaningful foray into this area so I haven't heard any alternatives.

I moved home about 18 months ago from the UK to Canada, which illustrated how much more noise was on my supply in the UK. So the local specific mains situation will undoubtedly.be different for everyone.

Thanks to the community for the knowledge sharing and illuminating discussions on here!

Everything in your system matters to SQ - from power line to network and everything between

Recent learnings:
1) Grounding cables need to be low-impedance - the noise they need to effectively shunt away is high-frequency (so regular audio-cables are typically non optimal).

2) The SQ effects that ground-plane noise can have are both large (=how much better) and all-over the place (=what you hear) - case in point: connecting the unused AES input of a DAC to the signal grounding hub had a substantial improvement on bass reproduction... (Not what you would anticipate.)

 

[takacs75]

I’ve been using grounding devices in my system for years. I have a Synergistic Reseach active ground box and 2 Tripoint Troy with Dalby and Ikigai grunding cables. I also tried all the Entreq boxes and cables but nothing came close to Tripoint.

 

[Zeotrope]

Update from Shunyata Altaira test-event at my Dealer's

System: Innous PhenixNet switch, Antipodes K50 streamer, MSB Premier Pre+DAC + S202 Amp, Piega Coax 711 speakers, Shunyata cabling, Shunyata Everest power distributor

Experiment: One Altaira Chassis grounding hub, one Altaira Signal grounding hub, Alpha-level (so silver-based) low-impedence grounding cables.

Method: adding chassis grounding component-by-component, adding signal-grounding component-by-component (until we ran out of cables!) listening to same track after each change - In the end we did a switch-back to no grounding at all

Findings:
Clear SQ improvements when deploying Altaira -> noise-floor reduced -> more music information revealed.
Biggest incremental steps came when adding signal grounding, single biggest step was when grounding Premier's (unused) AES-input to Altaira Signal.

Grounding is extremely system specific - your mileage will for certain be different -> experiment!
Altaira provides a low-impedence path for noise riding system components' grounding-plane, then isolates (six channels/hub) and filters the noise in Hub (6-12dB @ 3kHz-30MHz Chassis; >6db @ 50kHz-30MHz Signal) and finally sends it off to the system's power distributor's ground plinth.

If all system component's were built following exactly the same principles for chassis- and signal-ground most likely Altaira would not be needed at all - but that is not the current state.

Altaira hubs are ~4 000€ each, cables are a couple of 100€ each -> a complete setup will be around 10 000€

(I have signed up to evaluate an Altaira evaluation kit at home - in my system.)

I posted my findings a few pages ago here and in the Shunyata grounding thread. I am using Omega cables and a Signal Hub. The biggest improvement I found was in the upper mid and high frequencies. Remarkably, I am hearing cymbals on tracks that I listen to daily and never noticed before!
The Absolute Sound awarded Altaira a Product of the Year Award and this can be read on the Shunyata website which goes into a lot more detail: https://shunyata.com/

The cost doesn’t need to reach 10k. One hub is fine, with a couple of cables, is about $4k.

For existing owners of an Everest or Denali, it’s a no brainer. While results may be system and power grid dependent, you will hear results. I have relatively clean/good incoming AC, a new house with modern grounding, and about the most revealing components one can buy. There was still a significant improvement, at a relatively affordable (small % of total system) cost.

 

[Zeotrope]

Did you try connecting the chassis directly to the Everest poles, comparing it with the connection to Altaira Chasis Ground? I'd be very interested in that comparison.
I'm currently attaching 4 device chassis to Everest poles with cheap generic cables. I have been waiting for an order for 4 Shunyata Alfa ground cables for THREE MONTHS. Sometimes I think that if I served my clients with this speed, the most I could hope for is listening to music on a Sanyo Radio-Cassette.

I had this setup before, which I mentioned in my post a few pages ago… I had a stranded 16GA Duelund tinned copper wire connecting the Extreme ground to the Denali ground (the Denali V2 the same grounding system as the Everest). I heard no benefit from this setup. I didn’t go back and forth - I just didn’t hear any improvement.

 

[jbrrp1]

I posted my findings a few pages ago here and in the Shunyata grounding thread. I am using Omega cables and a Signal Hub. The biggest improvement I found was in the upper mid and high frequencies. Remarkably, I am hearing cymbals on tracks that I listen to daily and never noticed before!
The Absolute Sound awarded Altaira a Product of the Year Award and this can be read on the Shunyata website which goes into a lot more detail: https://shunyata.com/

The cost doesn’t need to reach 10k. One hub is fine, with a couple of cables, is about $4k.

For existing owners of an Everest or Denali, it’s a no brainer. While results may be system and power grid dependent, you will hear results. I have relatively clean/good incoming AC, a new house with modern grounding, and about the most revealing components one can buy. There was still a significant improvement, at a relatively affordable (small % of total system) cost.

How are you connecting the Taiko Extreme to a Signal Hub? Is there a USB adaptor for the wires? Checking the back of mine, that's pretty much the only option: USB

 

[Nils]

How are you connecting the Taiko Extreme to a Signal Hub? Is there a USB adaptor for the wires? Checking the back of mine, that's pretty much the only option: USB

I plan to use the Extreme's additional Ethernet-input and connect that to Signal ground - I am already using Extreme's ground-lug to connect to chassis ground. Upcoming Taiko Switch has been confirmed to also have a ground-lug for chassis - but I do not know if there are inputs that can be used for connecting to signal ground, if I understood the new switch it only has two ports, one input and one output -> no spare ports.

Similarly - connecting the unused AES/XLR-input of my DAC to Signal ground.

There are adaptors for: RCA, USB, Ethernet and Coax

Ground Tail Adapters - Shunyata Research

The most innovative and revolutionary feature designed into Shunyata Research's ground cables are the innovative Ground Tail Adapters. Tail adapters are short cables that are designed to plug into the standard base cable using the STISTM v3 terminal system.

shunyata.com

 

[Zeotrope]

How are you connecting the Taiko Extreme to a Signal Hub? Is there a USB adaptor for the wires? Checking the back of mine, that's pretty much the only option: USB

I am using the provided ground screw, sent an image earlier (but it can be hard to read everything on this forum!):

 

[Zeotrope]

I plan to use the Extreme's additional Ethernet-input and connect that to Signal ground - I am already using Extreme's ground-lug to connect to chassis ground. Upcoming Taiko Switch has been confirmed to also have a ground-lug for chassis - but I do not know if there are inputs that can be used for connecting to signal ground, if I understood the new switch it only has two ports, one input and one output -> no spare ports.

Similarly - connecting the unused AES/XLR-input of my DAC to Signal ground.

There are adaptors for: RCA, USB, Ethernet and Coax

Ground Tail Adapters - Shunyata Research

The most innovative and revolutionary feature designed into Shunyata Research's ground cables are the innovative Ground Tail Adapters. Tail adapters are short cables that are designed to plug into the standard base cable using the STISTM v3 terminal system.

shunyata.com

There is no "signal ground" or DC ground for the Altaira system. I agree it's confusing. It's meant for chassis ground - connecting the ground pin from the AC input to the chassis.

For the Extreme, use the provided chassis ground screw. The point is to have <1 ohm between the AC ground (coming from the wall) to the ground point (the screw on the chassis, in this case).

The Hubs are used and selected as follows (I confirmed this multiple times with Shunyata):
One single Hub - connecting both digital and analog components = Chassis Hub
More than one Hub OR connecting only one type of component (digital or analog) = Signal Hub
Where you connect a hub (ground screw, chassis, or input/output) makes no difference as to which Hub you use.

 

[Huy Hoang]

I am using the provided ground screw, sent an image earlier (but it can be hard to read everything on this forum!):
View attachment 101515

Hi Zeotrope, please try to connect this ground cable directly to the copper plate of Extreme USB card instead of this screw. In my case when use with Entreq Olympus T, it give a better sonic improvement.

 

[ctydwn]

Rerack complete (moved from Quadraspire bamboo to HRS; still using HRS shelves) and settled in over the last week - whew. Very notable additional resolution and micro details - the kind I always struggled to hear on various tracks but now are clear. Additional solidity in notes as well. I am guessing both the Horizon and the Extreme benefitted.

Must agree that the Extreme and Horizon are a beautiful sounding pair. Middle shelf will be reshuffled for Taiko's switch and router.

Re: grounding I do get beneficial results using the CAD-GC1 to ground the Extreme (on the screw) and the M12 switch. Hope to use it on the Taiko switch. Currently use Plixir LPSs on M12 switch and comcast modem.

Happy and safe holidays to everyone! Looking forward to everything up Taiko’s many sleeves in 2023.

 

[2ndLiner]

Rerack complete (moved from Quadraspire bamboo to HRS; still using HRS shelves) and settled in over the last week - whew. Very notable additional resolution and micro details - the kind I always struggled to hear on various tracks but now are clear. Additional solidity in notes as well. I am guessing both the Horizon and the Extreme benefitted.

Must agree that the Extreme and Horizon are a beautiful sounding pair. Middle shelf will be reshuffled for Taiko's switch and router.

Re: grounding I do get beneficial results using the CAD-GC1 to ground the Extreme (on the screw) and the M12 switch. Hope to use it on the Taiko switch.

Happy and safe holidays to everyone! Looking forward to everything up Taiko’s many sleeves in 2023.

Beautiful setup!

 

[CKKeung]

I tried Strometank S5000
It is great device and it lowers the noise significantly if in your area power is bad.
But is expensive.
I was surprised that it has also a very positive effect on Taiko server .
Probably this was due to isolating it form the rest of the system.

But you might also try the Balanced trafos . It is so much cheaper and effective.
I did that installing 7 trafos each for every component .
This way I have each device separated.
Just make sure to get 5x the value your device trafo has. ( 300 kva - 1500 kva balanced)
If you want to use just one big trafo for all system this will be very big and heavy , costy as well.
Probably 3- 5 kva or bigger, depanding on your system components.
Also do not connect it yourself . Ask qualified person to do it for you, Safety first .

Lastly . It is easier to sell Strometank in case you dont like it , or take it with you to New home than do the same with installed balanced trafo solutions.

Ben Lau of Volent HK, a dealer of Extreme Server shared with me the following info :
Volent HK is dealer for Plixir audio accessories too. I am using several Plixir Elite Series balance transformer power-conditioners. Their performance/price ratios are excellent.

Ben told me that the Extreme Server benefits by getting power from Plixir.
He tested the various Elite models and found that the 400w model limited the dynamics.
The biggest 3000w model added authority to the sound but the agility/micro-dynamics became less.
The 1000w model gave the best / most balanced improvement for the demo Extreme in his showroom.

For transformer power-conditioners, the biggest ones may not be the best candidates for Extreme Server.

 

[cat6man]

Rerack complete (moved from Quadraspire bamboo to HRS; still using HRS shelves) and settled in over the last week - whew. Very notable additional resolution and micro details - the kind I always struggled to hear on various tracks but now are clear. Additional solidity in notes as well. I am guessing both the Horizon and the Extreme benefitted.

Must agree that the Extreme and Horizon are a beautiful sounding pair. Middle shelf will be reshuffled for Taiko's switch and router.

Re: grounding I do get beneficial results using the CAD-GC1 to ground the Extreme (on the screw) and the M12 switch. Hope to use it on the Taiko switch.

Happy and safe holidays to everyone! Looking forward to everything up Taiko’s many sleeves in 2023.

Congrats on your new setup!

Can you describe the sound when equipment was on the chair (pic2)? Just wondering......

 

[nonesup]

Ben Lau of Volent HK, a dealer of Extreme Server shared with me the following info :
Volent HK is dealer for Plixir audio accessories too. I am using several Plixir Elite Series balance transformer power-conditioners. Their performance/price ratios are excellent.

Ben told me that the Extreme Server benefits by getting power from Plixir.
He tested the various Elite models and found that the 400w model limited the dynamics.
The biggest 3000w model added authority to the sound but the agility/micro-dynamics became less.
The 1000w model gave the best / most balanced improvement for the demo Extreme in his showroom.

For transformer power-conditioners, the biggest ones may not be the best candidates for Extreme Server.

Ben Lau disables the Extreme's PSU and powers it with an external Plixir PSU?

 

[CKKeung]

Ben Lau disables the Extreme's PSU and powers it with an external Plixir PSU?

No of course.
He only plugs the Extreme into a Plixir Elite Series balance transformer power-conditioner.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Rerack complete (moved from Quadraspire bamboo to HRS; still using HRS shelves) and settled in over the last week - whew. Very notable additional resolution and micro details - the kind I always struggled to hear on various tracks but now are clear. Additional solidity in notes as well. I am guessing both the Horizon and the Extreme benefitted.

Must agree that the Extreme and Horizon are a beautiful sounding pair. Middle shelf will be reshuffled for Taiko's switch and router.

Re: grounding I do get beneficial results using the CAD-GC1 to ground the Extreme (on the screw) and the M12 switch. Hope to use it on the Taiko switch. Currently use Plixir LPSs on M12 switch and comcast modem.

Happy and safe holidays to everyone! Looking forward to everything up Taiko’s many sleeves in 2023.

Looking better then before aswell !

 

[nonesup]

No of course.
He only plugs the Extreme into a Plixir Elite Series balance transformer power-conditioner.

oh i got it wrong

 

[John T]

Rerack complete (moved from Quadraspire bamboo to HRS; still using HRS shelves) and settled in over the last week - whew. Very notable additional resolution and micro details - the kind I always struggled to hear on various tracks but now are clear. Additional solidity in notes as well. I am guessing both the Horizon and the Extreme benefitted.

Must agree that the Extreme and Horizon are a beautiful sounding pair. Middle shelf will be reshuffled for Taiko's switch and router.

Re: grounding I do get beneficial results using the CAD-GC1 to ground the Extreme (on the screw) and the M12 switch. Hope to use it on the Taiko switch. Currently use Plixir LPSs on M12 switch and comcast modem.

Happy and safe holidays to everyone! Looking forward to everything up Taiko’s many sleeves in 2023.

I love the pic of the tape measure and tubes! Looks familiar with rearrangement. Agreed, the H and Extreme make beautiful music together. I love what I am hearing from my system. I'm at the point where I'm playing this hand, with the exception of the new switch/network card. And soon XDMS. With upcoming knee replacement (OH BOY CAN'T WAIT) I don't want to be out of commission and not have my wits (the few that are left).
I do find all the grounding options very fascinating to read about. The inquisitiveness and passion that has been bestowed upon us is a beautiful thing. As William Blake said: "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom"

 

[MarkusBarkus]

@John T good luck with the replacement! I'm on week nine, post-op. That's why I waited until last week to get XDMS. I thought if I was doped up on morphine (I was) the last thing I needed was new alpha software! Good Luck. DM me if you think I can be of any help re: procedure, etc.