Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

I guess that to some extent any conclusions we might reach about the audible effect of overall traffic, "burstiness", etc will be specific to our unique LAN configurations. In my case the NAS-to-NAS traffic I'd be using to load up the network comes "downstream" of an unmanaged switch and copper/fiber/copper conversion:

ISP > DSL modem/router > copper > OpticalModule > fiber > Extreme

Same modem/router > copper > FMC > fiber > FMC > copper > Netgear GS105 switch > all the rest of thehousehold and general computing stuff, including two NAS.

A different configuration might have a different degree of susceptibility to and audibility of network activity.

Steve Z

Absolutely, the more datapoints we can gather, the more likely it is we can develop a “cure” for a wide range of configurations.

A challenge for us here in The Netherlands is every houshold has a very well performing home network, even an entry level 20 Euro/month internet subscription comes with a decent modem/router and a 100/100Mbit internet speed. We have a 1Gb/1Gb subscription at Euro 50/month cost.

Basically we are unable to generate a good sample size of data locally.

 

[austinpop]

I guess that to some extent any conclusions we might reach about the audible effect of overall traffic, "burstiness", etc will be specific to our unique LAN configurations. In my case the NAS-to-NAS traffic I'd be using to load up the network comes "downstream" of an unmanaged switch and copper/fiber/copper conversion:

ISP > DSL modem/router > copper > OpticalModule > fiber > Extreme

Same modem/router > copper > FMC > fiber > FMC > copper > Netgear GS105 switch > all the rest of thehousehold and general computing stuff, including two NAS.

A different configuration might have a different degree of susceptibility to and audibility of network activity.

Steve Z

Excellent point, Steve. This illustrates how complex the interactions are, and how many different configurations are possible.

In your example above, when you initiate the bulk transfer, while there may be a few packets flowing upstream to router initially for ARP resolution, the actual bulk transfer of bits will all happen on the GS105 switch. This switch is not directly attached to the Extreme, only indirectly, with the router being the common point on the tree.

It's still a valid experiment. Does SQ get affected or not? If it does, it then raises questions about where the interference is coming from.

 

[austinpop]

Here's a diagram - please forgive my atrocious handwriting.



Your test would be between NAS1 and NAS2 in the picture. But what if your NAS were located at the NAS3 position in the picture. Would it cause the same, less, or more impact on SQ?

And of course, there are many other configurations!

 

[oldmustang]

Here's a diagram - please forgive my atrocious handwriting.

View attachment 82319

Your test would be between NAS1 and NAS2 in the picture. But what if your NAS were located at the NAS3 position in the picture. Would it cause the same, less, or more impact on SQ?

And of course, there are many other configurations!

Yes, and other configurations are probably not going to get tested anytime soon.

I'm hardly a networking expert (more like barely competent) -- I've got everything working and manually assigned addresses for things like the Extreme and dCS Upsampler, etc set into my modem/router which is doing DHCP, so I go really, really slowly when I decide to change something.

Steve Z

 

[Muni]

Just keep your seat belt on and your seat back in an upright position because Emile and his team are going to take you on the ride of your life

Welcome to WBF. This is my favorite thread on WBF. It goes with my morning coffee every day

thank you STeve for this warm welcome - me too I am immensely enjoying this forum, appreciate very much the friendly atmosphere and the support from all sides that is to befound here...

 

[cat6man]

I guess that to some extent any conclusions we might reach about the audible effect of overall traffic, "burstiness", etc will be specific to our unique LAN configurations.

Steve Z

Absolutely. That is why I'm looking forward to taiko controlling both ends of the Ethernet connection, the taiko switch and the taiko extreme.

 

[Johnny Moondog]

I received a letter from the California Department of Tax and Fee Administration, regarding my import of the Extreme.

“We received information from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection that you imported items into California for storage, use, or other consumption in the state during the previous calendar year which may require you to pay use tax.”

Entry Date: 06-Jul-2020
Importer: FEDEX TRADE NETWORKS TRANSPORT
Country of Export: NETHERLANDS
Country of Origin: NETHERLANDS
Port: FEDEX COURIER, MEMPHIS TENNESSEE
Entry Number: 799-79590872

Description: 84 - NUCLEAR REACTORS, BOILERS, MACHINERY AND MECHANICAL APPLIANCES; PARTS THEREOF

Tax Due: $679.29

Before stepping through the online process to file and claim an exemption from tax, I shared the above crazy with Emile and he confirmed the following:

1) the Extreme is not a nuclear reactor
2) it was shipped with “HS Code 847149000000 Desktop Computer System without optical drive”
3) computers are duty free as part of the EU free trade agreement

But Extreme owners now have a fun story to tell! And perhaps some bragging rights. But what the heck was going through the minds over at U.S. Customs?

 

[SaiteiMan]

Back in March I received a letter from the California Department of Tax and Fee Administration, regarding my import of the Extreme.

“We received information from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection that you imported items into California for storage, use, or other consumption in the state during the previous calendar year which may require you to pay use tax.”

Entry Date: 06-Jul-2020
Importer: FEDEX TRADE NETWORKS TRANSPORT
Country of Export: NETHERLANDS
Country of Origin: NETHERLANDS
Port: FEDEX COURIER, MEMPHIS TENNESSEE
Entry Number: 799-79590872

Description: 84 - NUCLEAR REACTORS, BOILERS, MACHINERY AND MECHANICAL APPLIANCES; PARTS THEREOF

Tax Due: $679.29

Before stepping through the online process to file and claim an exemption from tax, I shared the above crazy with Emile and he confirmed the following:

1) the Extreme is not a nuclear reactor
2) it was shipped with “HS Code 847149000000 Desktop Computer System without optical drive”
3) computers are duty free as part of the EU free trade agreement

But Extreme owners now have a fun story to tell! And perhaps some bragging rights. But what the heck was going through the minds over at U.S. Customs?

Same here. Received a couple of letters from CA Dept of Tax and Fee Administration. Unfortunately, I ended paying for it as they were going to send me a notice of determination and follow-up with collection. I guess I call them back and dispute this charge.

 

[ctydwn]

Oh boy, me too. I kept getting late penalties and finally paid a few weeks ago. Interestingly the bill did not show up for 18 months after arrival. I did correct them on the nuclear reactor part. Didn't realize computers are duty free. Figured some radioactive isotypes may be a Taiko trade secret.

 

[oldmustang]

Sounds like your state(s) are overly aggressive about pursuing their import tax dollars. My Extreme was delivered in two days via FEDEX to NW Washington state -- cleared Customs in Seattle -- with no problems and no tax bill whatsoever.

When I imported my Aida speakers I hired a clearance agent to handle the paperwork in Seattle. Best money I ever spent so I didn't have to navigate the blizzard of forms and paperwork on my own. I paid some tax on these, but very minimal.

Each very large crate came in via air freight and weighed in at over 500 pounds a piece. Delivery time and total cost was faster and less expensive than some of the US-based quotes for the same speakers!

OK, done bragging for now. .

Steve Z

 

[Addicted to hifi]

thank you STeve for this warm welcome - me too I am immensely enjoying this forum, appreciate very much the friendly atmosphere and the support from all sides that is to befound here...

Welcome muni To wbf.

 

[Armsan]

Absolutely. That is why I'm looking forward to taiko controlling both ends of the Ethernet connection, the taiko switch and the taiko extreme.

Indeed. +1

 

[Taiko Audio]

Meanwhile in Europe we finally have some Shows again. We will be exhibiting at the Dutch Audio Event on the 30th and 31th of October with @flyer (Ultisone), Alsyvox Botticelli loudspeakers and Aries Cerat electronics.

Here are a few photos of the Audio Video Kino 2021 show in Bratislava, Slovakia held on the 18th and 19th of September by our distributor for Austria, Slovakia and the Czech Republic, DreamAudio.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Meanwhile in Europe we finally have some Shows again. We will be exhibiting at the Dutch Audio Event on the 30th and 31th of October with @flyer (Ultisone), Alsyvox Botticelli loudspeakers and Aries Cerat electronics.

Here are a few photos of the Audio Video Kino 2021 show in Bratislava, Slovakia held on the 18th and 19th of September by our distributor for Austria, Slovakia and the Czech Republic, DreamAudio.

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Wow very spectacular.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

... and the audio gear is nice too.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

California Department of Tax and Fee Administration

...that is actually the California "Fun Tax." Taiko Extreme users are having so much fun...something had to be done.

I'm in NY State and we have no such tax (perhaps the only one we don't have), as fun is not allowed. It's in the state constitution.

 

[wil]

I am testing both options with and without Wifi.
without is great but there is touch less control of the sound. Not sure why.
I want them both So I regulate this with Buffalo switches and connection between them.

I have dedicated fibre line just for music room direct from network provider server.
15 km single fibre…..no swiches nor any active things on the way to main server.
Transparent modem that is actually just optical fibre to Copper etherner module.

I must agee with Emil expression that this is a „ soup of noise”
What to add and what to disconnect is a very big question.
It looks I can adapt the SQ to any scenario now.
Its amazing that using only switches, modem, router and their supplys you can get any kind of sound.
From unacceptable to perfection ….. And all in between.

Having Taiko switch will be a cure for this disease I hope.

I have been pondering this for a while now.

It is true that disconnecting the network cable in Taiko’s system did not make a difference. It is also true that I was shocked that it did not make a difference. Everywhere else I have tried that in a resolving system, the difference has been quite obvious. But I’ve only tried that in small home networks before the Taiko system.

That raises the question Emile touched on. What if the problem with our networks is that in a small home network the occasional packet processing causes more interruption than in a busy network? Imagine a network device sitting mostly idle and receiving packets every few seconds. Each packet has to “wake up” (not literally) the network device. On the other hand, in a busy network, where tens of thousands of packets are processed every second, the occasional audio related packet makes relatively no difference.

To try to give an illustrative example - in a small home network you are riding a car that has to stop on a stop sign every few seconds; in a busy network, you are riding on a highway with a constant speed. Your “highway” ride will likely be much smoother.

Haven’t had time to do more testing in my system due to other priorities, but an interesting experiment would be run a traffic generator that will keep constant traffic flow and check if my network tweaks, such as Buffalo switches with PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock and Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS make the same difference, or less, or none.
You can also think about this as loading the network like a class A amplifier that is almost always working at high capacity. I guess we can call it a Class A network . It's a very interesting idea, and the concept is not new to high end audio.

Thank you for that excellent explanation!

 

[Steve Williams]

Oh boy, me too. I kept getting late penalties and finally paid a few weeks ago. Interestingly the bill did not show up for 18 months after arrival. I did correct them on the nuclear reactor part. Didn't realize computers are duty free. Figured some radioactive isotypes may be a Taiko trade secret.

I really don't know what the issue or complaints are all about. Almost all countries charge an import tax on any goods brought into their country that are manufactured elsewhere. In the EU , you have VAT

When my Extremem was sent, it was labeled as a "computer". When it arrived in the USA I was called by the DHL clearing agency and asked only one question, "does it have an optical drive?"

My tax was $338

BTW this tax must be paid before they release the article to the recipient. In fact one of my closest friends who is also a member here ignored their requests for payment and he kept asking me why he hasn't got his Extreme yet. As soon as the tax was paid, he received it the next day

 

[oldmustang]

Meanwhile in Europe we finally have some Shows again. We will be exhibiting at the Dutch Audio Event on the 30th and 31th of October with @flyer (Ultisone), Alsyvox Botticelli loudspeakers and Aries Cerat electronics.

Keep the eye-candy coming, Emile.

Thanks!

Steve Z

 

[ctydwn]

I really don't know what the issue or complaints are all about. Almost all countries charge an import tax on any goods brought into their country that are manufactured elsewhere. In the EU , you have VAT

When my Extremem was sent, it was labeled as a "computer". When it arrived in the USA I was called by the DHL clearing agency and asked only one question, "does it have an optical drive?"

My tax was $338

BTW this tax must be paid before they release the article to the recipient. In fact one of my closest friends who is also a member here ignored their requests for payment and he kept asking me why he hasn't got his Extreme yet. As soon as the tax was paid, he received it the next day

Oh, I'm not complaining. I gladly pay all taxes I am responsible for. It sounds like there is confusion whether Extreme owners should pay the import duty tax charged by California as Emile states computers are 'duty free' and U.S. Customs may have categorized the Extreme incorrectly for at least 3 of us (as a 'nuclear reactor'). These are charges from the previous calendar year and not a sales tax. CA can keep my $750 but I would gladly take it back if I was erroneously charged. Sounds like Steve you may not have been charged this tax by California perhaps because it was characterized as a 'computer'. Great pictures Emile!! Did you get to hear how the system sounded?!