Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

MusicFellow

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2022
118
280
68
38
Unfortunately I can no longer hear any of this due to complete hearing loss in one ear 6 weeks ago. I just wanted to pass on some of what I’d learned. And yes, my entire system is now for sale as I need to morph it into something more suitable and fun for a person with single sided deafness.
All the best wishes to you! Give it some time, maybe it will come back over time. I’m remembering a similar post somewhere, where the person also sold his system and regained his hearing afterwards… and had to reassemble the components. I also know from a dear friend in her thirties who lost hear hearing on one ear only to gain it back over the next weeks and months. It was mostly stress related in her case so maybe relaxation can help you, too. In any case, all the best to you and thank you for sharing your experiences! ??
 

Christiaan Punter

Well-Known Member
The only thing it did for me was to increase the length of time for the scan to complete. I have noticed no decrease in SQ
There's indeed no decrease in SQ between the old XDMS scan and the new XDMS scan with artist artwork.

"Library Scan" that is in XDMS settings. There was a new scanner released recently by Taiko
What Seatrope is referring to is to what extent the SQ takes a hit when you manually embed artwork into an audio file using a metadata editor. It's possible that there is indeed an audible difference but I've never made comparisons myself. That said, I'm sure the level of impact ties in with how the file is unpacked and played.
 

Christiaan Punter

Well-Known Member
I'm inclined to say ~20%, @Christiaan Punter may have a different rating, we listened to a lot of configurations today, direct to wall, with switch, with switch and router, with switch, router and dedicated access point, and listened to a wide array of filters, he took notes and will likely post a report on his subjective impressions tomorrow as he just left to drive back to Amsterdam, and it's 9:30PM here now.
I'm working on updating my documentation, as I try to balance the available time between XDMS testing, Support matters, HFA business, and processing my impressions of the exciting new products! I am aiming to provide my feedback by this weekend. I'll just say that last Monday at Taiko HQ was very, very interesting!
 

Christiaan Punter

Well-Known Member
We should never use switching mode wallwart powersupplies.
They pollute the whole powerline system in our houses.
While some wall warts are actually designed well and do not pollute as much as others, I do fully agree that it's best to avoid them where you can.

One great example I have is when I plugged a no-name wall wart (for an active HDMI cable) into the same outlet that powered the phono stage. The result was a cacophony of space-like noises on the phono output. After replacing the aforementioned wall wart with an Apple variant, the noise was gone.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
4,297
13,340
1,925
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
+1
For perfection takes time. Every time.
I,too, eagerly wait for word.

Marc

The chrome finish switches ordered before April the 10th ship May 10-12, chrome switches order after April the 10th ship the second week of June. All black finish switches ship the first week of June.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joet

engadin

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2022
187
163
50
62
There was a small battery power supply for switch&router mentioned in earlier posts.

What price should we expect?
When will it be most probably released?
 

Di-fi

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2021
138
161
115
Based on my past 5 year history of experimenting with and optimising my network I believe there are 3 elements to optimising sound quality in music streaming.

The better the quality of your audio network’s Physical Layer, the better the sound‘s ‘presentation’ ie. Your brain can construct a more realistic, live sounding soundscape of musicians spontaneously making music in a venue, recorded or engineered

For ALL network components, Better in = Better out. The better the stream quality going into a component, the better its output. Better = less noise, less jitter, less vibration, less cable loss, better power supplies, lower traffic, etc.

The less traffic on the ENTIRE audio network, the better the sound quality. The SOONER you can separate the audio related stream from the rest of the household demand, the better.

If you do the separation WITH the Taiko router, it will not sound as good as doing it before the router, simply on a better in = better out basis. In 5 years of experimenting and reading others’ experiences, I have never seen this Axiom disproven. Improve the input measurably and the output will improve.

So what that tells me is:

Ideally, your Taiko router and switch should be vibration isolated, have the finest power supplies and DC cables attached and have all non-audio related traffic separated off before either device.

In the end, the biggest influence on what you hear will be the power supplies employed, because they generate the bit stream and its the bit stream‘s physical quality that has the most impact on the output of your DAC. Assuming a bit-perfect stream of bits, its how the bits are structured and how much ’extraneous’ voltage and timing deviations are built-in to their structure that matters most.

In my network I had 6 streams of Sean Jacob’s ARC6DC4 power and extensive anti-vibration measures and the resulting sound was utterly gorgeous. That stream was upgraded from DC3 to DC4 to ARC6 and each upgrade brought huge improvements. Upgrading DC cables from really good Neotech to Mundorf silver/gold also brought jaw-dropping changes, mainly to purity, holographic imaging and a sense of reality and being present in the actual venue as the music was being created. Throughout those upgrades my perception gradually changed from listening to really good quality recorded music, to being at a live performance of the music. All the increased information I heard was the result of my brain being able to clearly resolve more information from the resulting soundwaves. The information was already there, but the accompanying ‘noise’ of varying sorts meant that my brain couldn’t resolve it from other parts of the music. Drop the noise and that impacts the brain’s ability to resolve more.

The BIG deal architecturally for a network built for sound quality is that as the stream progresses from incoming wall to final client, it should encounter constantly improving physical layer specs. For example, there no point having a low noise stage, low vibration stage or low jitter stage if the next stage or any downstream stages are worse. In audio, the network is a Stream Conditioning process, which should constantly improve the physical layer until what reaches your DAC or Server is as close to perfect as it can be.

Unfortunately I can no longer hear any of this due to complete hearing loss in one ear 6 weeks ago. I just wanted to pass on some of what I’d learned. And yes, my entire system is now for sale as I need to morph it into something more suitable and fun for a person with single sided deafness.
Dear @Blackmorec ,

Again, this was a joy to read, very informative.

For installation to the ’wall’ (modem/router) the Taiko router needs one Ethernet cable with RJ45 connector. Based on your experience would one connect the Taiko router with:
1) Wi-Fi (or 4G) router
2) Ethernet cable
3) Fiber

This is theoretical of course. With the Taiko Router I expect connection type to be more performing in exactly the above order.

Wish you all the best Steve.

PS. 1 - your system must sound amazing!
PS. 2 - !! 220V users please note 2 exceptional Sean Jacobs units:

Sean Jacobs Mini ARC6 DC4 with Mundorf Silver/Gold Cabling, Gaia Footers - 5V/3A
Sean Jacobs Dual Rail ARC6 DC4 5V & 12V Linear Power Supply

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Blackmorec

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
4,297
13,340
1,925
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
There was a small battery power supply for switch&router mentioned in earlier posts.

What price should we expect?
When will it be most probably released?

I honestly have no idea yet how much it’ll retail for, the design was just finished, the PCBs/parts are on order and it needs to pass safety testing (rather stringent for battery supplies). Actual launch is probably several months away.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
4,297
13,340
1,925
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Unfortunately I can no longer hear any of this due to complete hearing loss in one ear 6 weeks ago. I just wanted to pass on some of what I’d learned. And yes, my entire system is now for sale as I need to morph it into something more suitable and fun for a person with single sided deafness.

@Blackmorec, I’m so sorry to hear about your condition. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your contributions to this thread. I hope you stick around though understand you’ll most likely divert your attention to a different passion. I hope you can find as much joy in that as you very obviously did in this.
 

MusicFellow

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2022
118
280
68
38
I honestly have no idea yet how much it’ll retail for, the design was just finished, the PCBs/parts are on order and it needs to pass safety testing (rather stringent for battery supplies). Actual launch is probably several months away.
Just to understand the specific use case: This mini BPS would be for those how want to power switch / router, but not their Extreme? I‘m asking, because I assume that the „big“ internal/external BPS is able to power Extreme AND router / switch.

Follow-up question: With the new power distributor, will the connection / DC outlets be moved from the Extreme‘s back with the BPS to to the power distributor, so that the latter becomes a necessary accessory for the BPS so that multiple devices can be added:..or is this yet to be determined?

Thank you!
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
4,297
13,340
1,925
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Just to understand the specific use case: This mini BPS would be for those how want to power switch / router, but not their Extreme? I‘m asking, because I assume that the „big“ internal/external BPS is able to power Extreme AND router / switch.

Follow-up question: With the new power distributor, will the connection / DC outlets be moved from the Extreme‘s back with the BPS to to the power distributor, so that the latter becomes a necessary accessory for the BPS so that multiple devices can be added:..or is this yet to be determined?

Thank you!

Correct.

No, the BPS will retain multiple outputs, the DC distributor you may still want to keep as its sound tuning functionality is not integrated in the BPS, or to upgrade your home router/swith/wi-fi. But we will trade it back in if it becomes obsolete.
 

Rhapsody

VIP/Donor
Jan 16, 2013
3,464
6,508
2,535
Brooklyn NY
Rhapsody.Audio
The chrome finish switches ordered before April the 10th ship May 10-12, chrome switches order after April the 10th ship the second week of June. All black finish switches ship the first week of June.
Based on my past 5 year history of experimenting with and optimising my network I believe there are 3 elements to optimising sound quality in music streaming.

The better the quality of your audio network’s Physical Layer, the better the sound‘s ‘presentation’ ie. Your brain can construct a more realistic, live sounding soundscape of musicians spontaneously making music in a venue, recorded or engineered

For ALL network components, Better in = Better out. The better the stream quality going into a component, the better its output. Better = less noise, less jitter, less vibration, less cable loss, better power supplies, lower traffic, etc.

The less traffic on the ENTIRE audio network, the better the sound quality. The SOONER you can separate the audio related stream from the rest of the household demand, the better.

If you do the separation WITH the Taiko router, it will not sound as good as doing it before the router, simply on a better in = better out basis. In 5 years of experimenting and reading others’ experiences, I have never seen this Axiom disproven. Improve the input measurably and the output will improve.

So what that tells me is:

Ideally, your Taiko router and switch should be vibration isolated, have the finest power supplies and DC cables attached and have all non-audio related traffic separated off before either device.

In the end, the biggest influence on what you hear will be the power supplies employed, because they generate the bit stream and its the bit stream‘s physical quality that has the most impact on the output of your DAC. Assuming a bit-perfect stream of bits, its how the bits are structured and how much ’extraneous’ voltage and timing deviations are built-in to their structure that matters most.

In my network I had 6 streams of Sean Jacob’s ARC6DC4 power and extensive anti-vibration measures and the resulting sound was utterly gorgeous. That stream was upgraded from DC3 to DC4 to ARC6 and each upgrade brought huge improvements. Upgrading DC cables from really good Neotech to Mundorf silver/gold also brought jaw-dropping changes, mainly to purity, holographic imaging and a sense of reality and being present in the actual venue as the music was being created. Throughout those upgrades my perception gradually changed from listening to really good quality recorded music, to being at a live performance of the music. All the increased information I heard was the result of my brain being able to clearly resolve more information from the resulting soundwaves. The information was already there, but the accompanying ‘noise’ of varying sorts meant that my brain couldn’t resolve it from other parts of the music. Drop the noise and that impacts the brain’s ability to resolve more.

The BIG deal architecturally for a network built for sound quality is that as the stream progresses from incoming wall to final client, it should encounter constantly improving physical layer specs. For example, there no point having a low noise stage, low vibration stage or low jitter stage if the next stage or any downstream stages are worse. In audio, the network is a Stream Conditioning process, which should constantly improve the physical layer until what reaches your DAC or Server is as close to perfect as it can be.

Unfortunately I can no longer hear any of this due to complete hearing loss in one ear 6 weeks ago. I just wanted to pass on some of what I’d learned. And yes, my entire system is now for sale as I need to morph it into something more suitable and fun for a person with single sided deafness.
I wish you all the best in whatever you decide to focus on. You were always a leader in our Taiko journey. Going to miss your "discoveries". Be well and enjoy your next chapter!
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
@Blackmorec

I too wish you well. I have enjoyed reading your every post here in this thread and have learned from them. I hope your next chapter is as fruitful as this one was
 

John T

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2022
1,062
1,631
198
67
@Blackmorec: Always insightful and valuable knowledge...
 

jelt2359

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2020
241
255
133
39
Correct.

No, the BPS will retain multiple outputs, the DC distributor you may still want to keep as its sound tuning functionality is not integrated in the BPS, or to upgrade your home router/swith/wi-fi. But we will trade it back in if it becomes obsolete.
Interesting- I was about to ask about this topic actually. I believe one of the aspirations was for the Extreme to become immune to the home network. Is this now realised with router + switch + distributor? Because then that opens up many possibilities eg. NAS, and ability to remove all the LPS that I formerly had at my router/switch/wifi
 

MusicFellow

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2022
118
280
68
38
Correct.

No, the BPS will retain multiple outputs, the DC distributor you may still want to keep as its sound tuning functionality is not integrated in the BPS, or to upgrade your home router/swith/wi-fi. But we will trade it back in if it becomes obsolete.
Thank you, that helps clearing things up in my mind.

An additional, related question regarding the need for (a) third party LPS(s). I don’t have any LPS as of today, since I don’t use an audiophile switch, nor did I upgrade my router‘s switch mode power supply. I‘m trying to keep things simple and want to figure out how many LPS I would need. For a setup that includes both the switch, router and power distributor I understand that one LPS is enough and actually preferred. Now my question is: For also upgrading my further upstream existing router: Should I use the same LPS? My feeling is probably not so to keep the audiophile network part clean.
My solution for not buying too many LPS that I later won’t need would be to buy one LPS to power the power distributor (and thus the switch and Taiko router). Once the BPS become available (and is budgetwise within reach), I’d relocate that now free LPS to my existing non-audio router and am done with LPS.
Emile, is that a sound reasoning?
 

Rhapsody

VIP/Donor
Jan 16, 2013
3,464
6,508
2,535
Brooklyn NY
Rhapsody.Audio
Is there any update on the DC cables for the power distributor that would connect the Switch and Router to the PD?
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
4,297
13,340
1,925
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Thank you, that helps clearing things up in my mind.

An additional, related question regarding the need for (a) third party LPS(s). I don’t have any LPS as of today, since I don’t use an audiophile switch, nor did I upgrade my router‘s switch mode power supply. I‘m trying to keep things simple and want to figure out how many LPS I would need. For a setup that includes both the switch, router and power distributor I understand that one LPS is enough and actually preferred. Now my question is: For also upgrading my further upstream existing router: Should I use the same LPS? My feeling is probably not so to keep the audiophile network part clean.
My solution for not buying too many LPS that I later won’t need would be to buy one LPS to power the power distributor (and thus the switch and Taiko router). Once the BPS become available (and is budgetwise within reach), I’d relocate that now free LPS to my existing non-audio router and am done with LPS.
Emile, is that a sound reasoning?

1 LPS for the distributor which then powers the switch + router. Don’t share with the upstream “dirty” router. And yes if you go for the BPS moving LPS + distributor upstream is a good idea.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing