Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

With respect to the Taiko Extreme how do you connect it to your DAC

  • USB

    Votes: 80 67.2%
  • Ethernet

    Votes: 21 17.6%
  • Both USB and Ethernet

    Votes: 12 10.1%
  • AES/EBU

    Votes: 12 10.1%
  • Dual AES/EBU

    Votes: 3 2.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 7 5.9%

  • Total voters
    119

Kingsrule

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2011
1,119
304
525
That's why I said "internal processing" The MSB Select II has a very powerful 80 bit processor that is not sleeping, but doing a great job

So the Total DAC and Aqua have no "internal processing"? Everything has internal processing....

Your statement is misleading as well as the inference regarding vibration control.....
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
2,415
1,865
630
Hong Kong
I went to the SGM dealer in Hong Kong yesterday to listen to the Extreme again.
It had been "boiled" for 10+ days since arrival on 4th Feb.

There was very obvious improvement!
I listened to this 2-pianos album of Argerich's :
072109sob19b3fbhshbf1o.jpg

The grand pianos are gorgeous and Argerich was authoritative as usual! Super-quiet background yet with realistic images & attack! And the ambiance of the recording site was so real-like!

073348omtndmdmbn6mthom.jpg

Ben Lau of Volent HK is also the dealer of PLiXiR balance-transformer conditioner of Singapore. He has got a 1000W model for demo in the showroom and will try it on the Extreme later on.

For the time being, a smallish and humble Taiko Audio Setchi D2 electrical groundbox was attached to the Extreme and gave audible improvement.

I am wondering : if a Tripoint Troy Signature/Elite/NG is used, we will be in heaven definitely!
o_O
 
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Esotar

VIP/Donor
Mar 28, 2016
405
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www.digituslabs.kr
I went to the SGM dealer in Hong Kong yesterday to listen to the Extreme again.
It had been "boiled" for 10+ days since arrival on 4th Feb.

There was very obvious improvement!
I listened to this 2-pianos album of Argerich's :
View attachment 48661

The grand pianos are gorgeous and Argerich was authoritative as usual! Super-quiet background yet with realistic images & attack! And the ambiance of the recording site was so real-like!

View attachment 48662

Ben Lau of Volent HK is also the dealer of PLiXiR balance-transformer conditioner of Singapore. He has got a 1000W model for demo in the showroom and will try it on the Extreme later on.

For the time being, a smallish and humble Taiko Audio Setchi D2 electrical groundbox was attached to the Extreme and gave audible improvement.

I am wondering : if a Tripoint Troy Signature/Elite/NG is used, we will be in heaven definitely!
o_O


I'm World no.1 Entreq Collector, but Troy Elite or Troy Elite NG is much much much better than Entreq Olympus Tellus.

But Troy Elite is too expensive for poor Korean audiophiles to order their products.

I'm poor, too.

Ha Ha
 

ariescerat-espana

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Dec 28, 2015
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The MSB doesn't upsample, it plays the native rate of the file

Dacs like the dCS Vivaldi/upsampler do upsample .....
Is that official from MSB? I have asked this question before but never for an answer.... if it has a filter I bet is IS upsamping.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
9,430
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Is that official from MSB? I have asked this question before but never for an answer.... if it has a filter I bet is IS upsamping.

it's stays native in the MSB Select II......according to the Select II manual. here is a snippet from the hard copy manual that came with my Select II dac.

there are some sort of algorithms/software applied to 16/44 and dsd for optimization of those files (both of these features were software upgrades). you can turn the 'optimization' on and off for the dsd and it is significant. also note that the Select II dacs are able to drive the output directly with no opamps or output stage.

1550329386027.png
 
Last edited:

ariescerat-espana

VIP/Donor
Dec 28, 2015
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it's stays native in the MSB Select II......according to the Select II manual. here is a snippet from the hard copy manual that came with my Select II dac.

View attachment 48670
Thanks for that info. So it doesn't upsample, but still uses a filter.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,670
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San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
Upsampling was optional up to the DAC V series. Starting with the Analog DAC, MSB stopped offering upsampling, even as an option.
So yes, no upsampling, but definitely has filters.
If you want filter-less R2R, there's the Aqua DACs.
 

Kingsrule

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2011
1,119
304
525
Filters implies that there are choices...I don't see choices in my SII menu....
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
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Filters implies that there are choices...I don't see choices in my SII menu....

There are different filters for different frequencies, one for each, 16/44, 24/96, DSD, etc. Each filter is code written by MSB, and optimized for that given frequency.
 
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Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,884
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taikoaudio.com
According to the Nyquist Theorem,
in order to achieve lossless sampling,
the sample rate must be at least twice as high
as the highest recorded frequency. Thus, an audio signal
with a bandwidth of 20 kHz would require a sampling rate
of at least 40,000 samples/second. It is of equal importance
that no audio signal that is greater than half the sampling frequency
enters into the digitizing process. Such sampled frequencies
introduce erroneous frequencies, known as alias frequencies,
whose lower harmonic multiples enter the audio signal
as false descending frequencies, producing harmonic distortion.
To eliminate the effects of aliasing, a low-pass filter is used
before the analog-to-digital conversion process
in order to remove frequencies above the Nyquist
half-sampling frequency limit.

As the frequency of an incoming signal increases, the shorter period
will be represented by fewer samples, until, at 20 kHz,
the reproduced waveform is represented as a square wave.
In order to eliminate these types of higher-frequency
output distortions and to preserve the lossless nature of sampling,
another low-pass filter is placed at the output of the device.
This has the effect of blocking the upper harmonic components
of a 20-kHz square wave, leaving only the original
undistorted waveform.

The latter is the reason for the low-passing
in CD-Audio (or so called Red Book) players.

Ever since the late seventies, the concept of The Compact Disc
has been a project by Philips and Sony working closely together
on the development of this laser-based audio-carrier.
Leader in this research has been Dr.Kramer,
and he was busy with it in Eindhoven, The Netherlands, ever
since 1968. In 1978 the first actual physical CD-format
was there to experiment on.

44.1kHz was chosen to fit a digital audio signal onto video tape,
in the area used to store the picture. Video was the digital audio
storage medium before we had CD, and the rate of 44.1
is a logical result of that and the need for a safe rate
that could include up to 20kHz, which was considered to be
the human threshold of hearing back then. The first rate
that simply worked (and was interchangeable with video,
since CD-mastering was done on video) was 44.1 kHz.
The 44100 Hertz comes from the calculation
using video-frames, where you can have
3 samples per field of 490/2 lines;
3 x 245 x 60 Hz = 44100 Hz

http://jthz.nl/mp3/CD-44100Hz.htm
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
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taikoaudio.com
Sorry Ed.

One last question - why is the power of the extreme much higher than the EVO when it doesn’t do the upsampling heavy lifting. I would have imagined that you would have wanted the lowest possible power for noise reduction?

Hi Bill,

It’s a different concept. In the original SGM we focused on creating a machine excelling in upsampling. You could view upsampling as a way to reduce the influence of DAC filters. For example DSD upsampling with the good old T+A as you experienced would push low pass filter requirements up to very high frequencies.

As Edward pointed out DAC quality (and filter quality) had improved significantly, to the point there are now quite a number of DAC’s not benefitting from upsampling.

For this generation of DAC’s the Extreme is the better partner, it’s focus is having as low processing queue depths as possible, with heavy cpu load upsampling queues will always be high which leads to different design choices.

For example the often discussed latency. This is obviously not the latency between pressing play and hearing sound, but a latency existing in computer systems being defined by simple copper trace lengths (distance), time to enter specific hardware states, time it takes to get access to section of memory or disk, etc etc. Every instruction or set of instructions being executed takes an amount of time which you can (simplified) define as latency+execution time.

With bit perfect playback execution times and data reads/writes are low and latencies become significant.

With heavy upsampling execution times are high and latency becomes a relatively small factor.

Now please note that latencies are not all of a sudden the only factor in play, theyre just relatively more important now, even more so when not doing heavy processing.

So why are we using such a heavy, high power machine which can provide an entire medium sized company’s IT services for bit perfect playback?

Because it’s able to maintain low queue depths everywhere (cpu/ram/drives) all the time, even when it is running Roon software which is not very light at all, the amount of processing being executed is minimal.

This leads to a very even, almost constant, current draw, ofcourse the massive powersupply helps smoothing this out even more. Current fluctuations come with dips, overshoots, ringing etc. This means the server’s influence on its surroundings is reduced in many ways, powerline ringing and harmonics, EMI and RFI emissions.

In fact system influence has always been important to us, from the first SGM we have always made sure introducing one into your system does not degrade other system components. But now taken to the Extreme as in it will not degrade your other system components, no matter how high level they are, while playing music.

I’m a bit short on time but will try to elaborate on this subject more extensively in the next few days.
 

bibo01

Member
Nov 27, 2013
201
0
16
Waiting for internal pictures and more specific technical details on mb/cpu, I propose a game trying to guess what CPU the SGM Extreme is using.
I restricted my choice to 4 CPU models:
INTEL® XEON® PROCESSOR E5-4620 V4
INTEL® XEON® PROCESSOR E5-4610 V4
INTEL® XEON® PROCESSOR E7-4820 V4
INTEL® XEON® PROCESSOR E7-8891 V4

Given the announced passive cooling system announced capability, I guess E5-4620 or E7-4820.

Motherboard is perhaps Supermicro X11DPL-i. If 12 DIMM slots were used, perhaps an E-ATX or proprietary MB was used.

Just for fun :)
 

jturbo

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2018
130
86
93
Lexington, KY
Waiting for internal pictures and more specific technical details on mb/cpu, I propose a game trying to guess what CPU the SGM Extreme is using.
I restricted my choice to 4 CPU models:
INTEL® XEON® PROCESSOR E5-4620 V4
INTEL® XEON® PROCESSOR E5-4610 V4
INTEL® XEON® PROCESSOR E7-4820 V4
INTEL® XEON® PROCESSOR E7-8891 V4

Given the announced passive cooling system announced capability, I guess E5-4620 or E7-4820.

Motherboard is perhaps Supermicro X11DPL-i. If 12 DIMM slots were used, perhaps an E-ATX or proprietary MB was used.

Just for fun :)


I think Intel Silver 4114 x 2
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,884
3,140
435
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Waiting for internal pictures and more specific technical details on mb/cpu, I propose a game trying to guess what CPU the SGM Extreme is using.
I restricted my choice to 4 CPU models:
INTEL® XEON® PROCESSOR E5-4620 V4
INTEL® XEON® PROCESSOR E5-4610 V4
INTEL® XEON® PROCESSOR E7-4820 V4
INTEL® XEON® PROCESSOR E7-8891 V4

Given the announced passive cooling system announced capability, I guess E5-4620 or E7-4820.

Motherboard is perhaps Supermicro X11DPL-i. If 12 DIMM slots were used, perhaps an E-ATX or proprietary MB was used.

Just for fun :)
I think Intel Silver 4114 x 2

It’s the Asus WS C621E Sage with 2X Silver 4114.
 
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microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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(...) For example the often discussed latency. This is obviously not the latency between pressing play and hearing sound, but a latency existing in computer systems being defined by simple copper trace lengths (distance), time to enter specific hardware states, time it takes to get access to section of memory or disk, etc etc. Every instruction or set of instructions being executed takes an amount of time which you can (simplified) define as latency+execution time.

With bit perfect playback execution times and data reads/writes are low and latencies become significant.
(...)

It is something I find difficult to understand. Just consider non upsampled redbook, to keep things simple. How can computer latency affect data streams at such low data rates?
 

Esotar

VIP/Donor
Mar 28, 2016
405
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285
South Korea
www.digituslabs.kr
I'm testing SGM Extreme.

I used some fuses to Extreme.

The result is interesting.



Best Fuse for SGM Extreme

1st. Beeswax Ultimate Fuse - 100%

2nd. Beeswax Super Fuse - 75%

3rd. Bundle Fuse - 60%

4th. Synergistic Research Blue Fuse - 55%




In case of EVO, Blue fuse is the best.

But in case of Extreme, Blue fuse makes Extreme lose dynamic and bass sound's power.

The best cost-effective fuse is bundle fuse.

It's very nice~!
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
12,815
3,417
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E. England
Don't mention Beeswax v SR to Blue58 LOL!
 

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