Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Kris]

“ (in fact it's not really a switch)”
if i have to make a gues, its a device that completely re-clocks and isolates the network signal.

I think simmilar .
I am using two Buffalo 2016 switches with PinkFaun clocks for a reason.
I found it long ago that Extreme is extremelly sensitive in my system for any network changes
or twicks. I was able to elevate the sinic quality so significantly I could not believe.
Nor mention that with the switches and their setttings I was able to modify the SQ in any way I wanted.
I could not be happier that Emile and his Team picked that route.
They will be able to do it so much metter than anyone else by adding their secret formula used
and tested in extreme.

 

[Billgates307]

I think simmilar .
I am using two Buffalo 2016 switches with PinkFaun clocks for a reason.
I found it long ago that Extreme is extremelly sensitive in my system for any network changes
or twicks. I was able to elevate the sinic quality so significantly I could not believe.
Nor mention that with the switches and their setttings I was able to modify the SQ in any way I wanted.
I could not be happier that Emile and his Team picked that route.
They will be able to do it so much metter than anyone else by adding their secret formula used
and tested in extreme.

Maybe Emile and his team have gone even further. A network signal has to become analog and has to be processed to become digital again. Maybe They found a way to completely isolate, rebuild the signal from the ground up and transmit it to the "networkcard" without compression/rebuild or anything else witch would add noise again.

 

[MOTU]

If I would guess, I think that filtering out the relatively massive amounts of unwanted network traffic and associated processing probably helps at least as much as improving the clock and removing noise from the signal/ground.

 

[jelt2359]

Here are some hints I’ve seen on this thread, starting from when way back when the OS upgrade was implemented:
1) some routers are really bad for audio, sending lots of unwanted packets of data
2) some switches actively throttle down the speed, which was seen as a bad thing (I sold my melco switch because of this)
3) it’s really heavy

So my guess is that the switch not only strips out unwanted packets of data (point 1), it also throttles UP the speed from switch to extreme (point 2). Finally the weight helps to reduce microvibrations which must be somehow really bad for fast, error free and complete transmission of data (point 3).

However, the most logical way to eliminate all three points is simply to go no network at all, and for the taiko switch to be better than no network means that my guesses are still missing something extremely fundamental here. Heh. This leads to the fourth hint:

4) the switch and network card benefits extreme owners more than non extreme owners

This could just mean that there’s something in the software to tune for; but could it also be that this is linked to the unique way the extreme works, which I think has the core and player separated by a network moat? Meaning that this network moat also benefits from the switch and network card in some way?

 

[Billgates307]

Here are some hints I’ve seen on this thread, starting from when way back when the OS upgrade was implemented:
1) some routers are really bad for audio, sending lots of unwanted packets of data
2) some switches actively throttle down the speed, which was seen as a bad thing (I sold my melco switch because of this)
3) it’s really heavy

So my guess is that the switch not only strips out unwanted packets of data (point 1), it also throttles UP the speed from switch to extreme (point 2). Finally the weight helps to reduce microvibrations which must be somehow really bad for fast, error free and complete transmission of data (point 3).

However, the most logical way to eliminate all three points is simply to go no network at all, and for the taiko switch to be better than no network means that my guesses are still missing something extremely fundamental here. Heh. This leads to the fourth hint:

4) the switch and network card benefits extreme owners more than non extreme owners

This could just mean that there’s something in the software to tune for; but could it also be that this is linked to the unique way the extreme works, which I think has the core and player separated by a network moat? Meaning that this network moat also benefits from the switch and network card in some way?

But here comes the “ (in fact it's not really a switch)” around the corner again ;-)
So the device takes that network signal and probably acts like a DAC after that me thinks.
Like many computeraudio enthusiasts reclock their signal after the music server. This new device works in front of the server. as a new source without noise.

 

[nonesup]

Here are some hints I’ve seen on this thread, starting from when way back when the OS upgrade was implemented:
1) some routers are really bad for audio, sending lots of unwanted packets of data
2) some switches actively throttle down the speed, which was seen as a bad thing (I sold my melco switch because of this)
3) it’s really heavy

So my guess is that the switch not only strips out unwanted packets of data (point 1), it also throttles UP the speed from switch to extreme (point 2). Finally the weight helps to reduce microvibrations which must be somehow really bad for fast, error free and complete transmission of data (point 3).

However, the most logical way to eliminate all three points is simply to go no network at all, and for the taiko switch to be better than no network means that my guesses are still missing something extremely fundamental here. Heh. This leads to the fourth hint:

4) the switch and network card benefits extreme owners more than non extreme owners

This could just mean that there’s something in the software to tune for; but could it also be that this is linked to the unique way the extreme works, which I think has the core and player separated by a network moat? Meaning that this network moat also benefits from the switch and network card in some way?

I don't really understand your point number 2. Could you explain it, I find it very interesting.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

I don't really understand your point number 2. Could you explain it, I find it very interesting.

Melco is one of the manufacturers who place emphasis on intentionally reducing the network bandwidth for the connected audio devices in order to create a quieter environment and achieve better sound quality. The reasoning is that all that bandwidth is not necessary or helpful for UPnP (the protocol that Melco streamers use to receive music from a NAS), and it probably really isn't. With Roon, however, a wide bandwidth can have real benefits and a severely limited bandwidth can even cause real issues. That said, I am not a network specialist, and of course, there are many roads to audio nirvana.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...the Home Version of network tuning has been fantastic here. Modded PFBuff switch and dedicated audio-only power and audio-only fiber ISP is very, very "clean."

So I am really jazzed (with some classical too) about the Taiko approach which ups the game to pro-level.

 

[Billgates307]

I guess with all the likes we get from @EuroDriver and @Taiko Audio we are probably all a million miles from the truth of course....

 

[wil]

Melco is one of the manufacturers who place emphasis on intentionally reducing the network bandwidth for the connected audio devices in order to create a quieter environment and achieve better sound quality. The reasoning is that all that bandwidth is not necessary or helpful for UPnP (the protocol that Melco streamers use to receive music from a NAS), and it probably really isn't. With Roon, however, a wide bandwidth can have real benefits and a severely limited bandwidth can even cause real issues. That said, I am not a network specialist, and of course, there are many roads to audio nirvana.

I have the Melco S100 switch. It has both 100 mb and Gigabit outputs. As I understand, with servers like Roon Nucleus or the Extreme, the Giga speed should be used.

Am I misunderstanding something about the Melco?

 

[John T]

The dual purpose cable that will be used for the "switch/network card" do you have a length? Thinking ahead in regards to placement of a shelf and how I will accommodate my LPS/Switch/Router...

 

[Steve Williams]

The dual purpose cable that will be used for the "switch/network card" do you have a length? Thinking ahead in regards to placement of a shelf and how I will accommodate my LPS/Switch/Router...

Well Emile said that the (non). switch must be within 20 feet of the Extreme so perhaps a 20 foot length

 

[Kris]

Maybe Emile and his team have gone even further. A network signal has to become analog and has to be processed to become digital again. Maybe They found a way to completely isolate, rebuild the signal from the ground up and transmit it to the "networkcard" without compression/rebuild or anything else witch would add noise again.

As we all know there is no such thing like pure digital.
all digital signals are transferred in cables using ANALOG transfer ways such as current , voltage changes. This is all analog at the end, but I know what you mean.
I also hope they will surprise us many times in near future with out of the box thinking,

 

[nuway]

I have the Melco S100 switch. It has both 100 mb and Gigabit outputs. As I understand, with servers like Roon Nucleus or the Extreme, the Giga speed should be used.

Am I misunderstanding something about the Melco?

Will , as you, I also have the S100 on 1gb. It has delivered great SQ since then.

 

[simorag]

Surprisingly, or maybe not after what I just wrote above the sound quality coming from Roon far exceeds what the alpha testers are experiencing now coming from XDMS, and it's been 100% consistent over the past months of Roon 1.8 and 2.0 builds.

Awesome post, presenting a very compelling upgrade path indeed!

Curious about the snippet above: within the fully upgraded hardware prototypical ecosystem that you now have in place, is XDMS still better sounding than Roon?

 

[Taiko Audio]

I guess with all the likes we get from @EuroDriver and @Taiko Audio we are probably all a million miles from the truth of course....

Definitely some creative brainstorming going on

 

[Taiko Audio]

Awesome post, presenting a very compelling upgrade path indeed!

Curious about the snippet above: within the fully upgraded hardware prototypical ecosystem that you now have in place, is XDMS still better sounding than Roon?

XDMS is going to change things.

 

[Steve Williams]

XDMS is going to change things.

It already has

 

[marty]

The (near) future road, to Roon or not to Roon:

.....the sound quality coming from Roon far exceeds what the alpha testers are experiencing now coming from XDMS, and it's been 100% consistent over the past months of Roon 1.8 and 2.0 builds.

I read Emile's post 5 times and each time I'm left slack-jawed for several reasons. To begin, the transparency of his remarks is simply stunning. Does anyone know of another CEO that so openly reveals his strategic plans for a similar high technology product? It's unheard of and more than that he's been doing it since the product's inception.. Can you imagine an amplifier designer, for example, telling you exactly what he is going to design and how he''s going to do it 2 years in advance of their next product iteration? Wow. Not gonna happen, period. That, combined with a proven track record of making continual upgrades at no charge for the end user, is why I bought an Extreme to begin with.

The XDMS vs Roon comparisons that we see here are not only exhausting to read about IMO, but hold little interest for me to explore although now that switching between the two in the latest alpha release is easy, I am getting closer to trying XDMS. I applaud all those users that are providing excellent feedback to the development team to implement changes that will make this easier to use for people like me. But then, when I read remarks like those from Emile above, I am stunned and think, OK, just hang in there as the possibility of having yet unrealized benefits to Roon are not that far off. And if I like Roon now, which I do, how nice it will be to have even better sounding options down the road for both Roon and XDMS.

One thing I'm pretty certain of is that no matter how good XDMS becomes, it will simply not be the commercial success that Taiko aspires to unless it offers the user flexibility that Roon is famous for implementing. There's a big difference in commercial potential by offering a program that provides superior sonic performance for a few hundred users, vs one that is used as a de facto standard by tens of thousands+ of users. Taiko knows this as well, and it makes perfect to sense that the solutions Emile is offering will benefit both player programs. A rising tide lifts all boats. The fact that Emile's approach is not putting a gun to anyone's head to use one or the other, since you will be able to use either, is yet another example of his forward thinking.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Will , as you, I also have the S100 on 1gb. It has delivered great SQ since then.

Just to be clear I have nothing against the Melco switch. And of course, the switch offers four 100Mb ports and four Gigabit LAN ports, and the user is free to use either. I only endeavored to explain to nonesup what was meant by speed throttling.