Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Zeotrope]

As mentioned above, LED dimming usually occurs (in electronics applications) by pulsing the LED on/off. This can probably cause enough noise to degrade the sound, especially when everything has been taken to such an “extreme”.


There are two main in ways in which we dim LEDs. There is pulse-width modulation (PWM) dimming and constant current reduction (CCR) Each type has its own pros and cons. I’m not sure but I don’t think CCR is common in electronic applications.

PWM Dimming​

Pulse-width modulation (PWM) dimming works by turning the LED on and off at a very high speed. Although it actually ends up making the light flicker, it's so fast that the human eye doesn't notice. PWM works by using the exact amount of electrical current the LED requires. The process quickly switches between that current amount and zero. So either the LED is running on its necessary amount of power, or it's off.

A benefit of PWM dimming is that is allows the LED to be on for less time. This helps to lower its internal temperature and potentially adds to its lifespan. Another benefit is color temperature. PWM dimming keeps LEDs running at their rated electrical current level. The expected color temperature of a dimmable LED lamp does not change and stays constant through dimming.

A drawback to PWM dimming is the potential for some noise generation from the lamp. Some flickering can occur when not using the appropriate PWM frequency. Additionally, sometimes PWM drivers can generate electromagnetic interference (EMI), making them unsuitable for certain applications such as medical.

CCR Reduction​

Constant current reduction (CCR) dimming is also sometimes known as analog dimming. As the electrical current that is necessary to illuminate the LED lamp flows through it, the current lowers to dim the lamp.

Again, CCR dimming can help increase the life of an LED lamp as a lower current equals lower heat generation, helping to decrease stress to the lamp's components. Additionally, CCR dimming does not result in any noise generation or flickering.

On the flipside, CCR dimming can sometimes have some issues with dimmable LED lamps at very low current or deep dimming levels. They may also sometimes result in slightly changing the color of the emitted light as the lamp is dimmed.

 

[howiebrou]

As mentioned above, LED dimming usually occurs (in electronics applications) by pulsing the LED on/off. This can probably cause enough noise to degrade the sound, especially when everything has been taken to such an “extreme”.


There are two main in ways in which we dim LEDs. There is pulse-width modulation (PWM) dimming and constant current reduction (CCR) Each type has its own pros and cons. I’m not sure but I don’t think CCR is common in electronic applications.

PWM Dimming​

Pulse-width modulation (PWM) dimming works by turning the LED on and off at a very high speed. Although it actually ends up making the light flicker, it's so fast that the human eye doesn't notice. PWM works by using the exact amount of electrical current the LED requires. The process quickly switches between that current amount and zero. So either the LED is running on its necessary amount of power, or it's off.

A benefit of PWM dimming is that is allows the LED to be on for less time. This helps to lower its internal temperature and potentially adds to its lifespan. Another benefit is color temperature. PWM dimming keeps LEDs running at their rated electrical current level. The expected color temperature of a dimmable LED lamp does not change and stays constant through dimming.

A drawback to PWM dimming is the potential for some noise generation from the lamp. Some flickering can occur when not using the appropriate PWM frequency. Additionally, sometimes PWM drivers can generate electromagnetic interference (EMI), making them unsuitable for certain applications such as medical.

CCR Reduction​

Constant current reduction (CCR) dimming is also sometimes known as analog dimming. As the electrical current that is necessary to illuminate the LED lamp flows through it, the current lowers to dim the lamp.

Again, CCR dimming can help increase the life of an LED lamp as a lower current equals lower heat generation, helping to decrease stress to the lamp's components. Additionally, CCR dimming does not result in any noise generation or flickering.

On the flipside, CCR dimming can sometimes have some issues with dimmable LED lamps at very low current or deep dimming levels. They may also sometimes result in slightly changing the color of the emitted light as the lamp is dimmed.

seems like a bit of tape is far easier...

 

[Christiaan Punter]

As mentioned above, LED dimming usually occurs (in electronics applications) by pulsing the LED on/off. This can probably cause enough noise to degrade the sound, especially when everything has been taken to such an “extreme”.


There are two main in ways in which we dim LEDs. There is pulse-width modulation (PWM) dimming and constant current reduction (CCR) Each type has its own pros and cons. I’m not sure but I don’t think CCR is common in electronic applications.

PWM Dimming​

Pulse-width modulation (PWM) dimming works by turning the LED on and off at a very high speed. Although it actually ends up making the light flicker, it's so fast that the human eye doesn't notice. PWM works by using the exact amount of electrical current the LED requires. The process quickly switches between that current amount and zero. So either the LED is running on its necessary amount of power, or it's off.

A benefit of PWM dimming is that is allows the LED to be on for less time. This helps to lower its internal temperature and potentially adds to its lifespan. Another benefit is color temperature. PWM dimming keeps LEDs running at their rated electrical current level. The expected color temperature of a dimmable LED lamp does not change and stays constant through dimming.

A drawback to PWM dimming is the potential for some noise generation from the lamp. Some flickering can occur when not using the appropriate PWM frequency. Additionally, sometimes PWM drivers can generate electromagnetic interference (EMI), making them unsuitable for certain applications such as medical.

CCR Reduction​

Constant current reduction (CCR) dimming is also sometimes known as analog dimming. As the electrical current that is necessary to illuminate the LED lamp flows through it, the current lowers to dim the lamp.

Again, CCR dimming can help increase the life of an LED lamp as a lower current equals lower heat generation, helping to decrease stress to the lamp's components. Additionally, CCR dimming does not result in any noise generation or flickering.

On the flipside, CCR dimming can sometimes have some issues with dimmable LED lamps at very low current or deep dimming levels. They may also sometimes result in slightly changing the color of the emitted light as the lamp is dimmed.

The above is good to share, and indeed correct, but mainly concerns AC light sources such as those that we use to light our rooms. In DC applications, such as within a music server, one can also use PWM and I'm sure some companies do, but it is better to vary the brightness of a LED by selecting the value of a resistor. This is what is usually done and it results in a reduced fixed brightness for the LED but no harm to the sound. Theoretically, one could have multiple resistor values and use software to choose between them, which should theoretically not influence the sound quality.

But let's not give Emile any more ideas because he already has more than he has time to bring them to fruition!

 

[Zeotrope]

Thanks, good point. I was not trying to suggest this as a feature! Actually, the opposite: I was trying to show that dimming the LED through hardware could likely degrade the sound quality. The above assumes the LED can be dimmed by varying current. Usually LEDs in these applications cannot be dimmed by varying current, they can only be dimmed using PWM Dimming, which causes noise.

I would rather the Taiko team focus on more highly value-added features, as they have been.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Thanks, good point. I was not trying to suggest this as a feature! Actually, the opposite: I was trying to show that dimming the LED through hardware could likely degrade the sound quality. The above assumes the LED can be dimmed by varying current. Usually LEDs in these applications cannot be dimmed by varying current, they can only be dimmed using PWM Dimming, which causes noise.

I would rather the Taiko team focus on more highly value-added features, as they have been.

Absolutely, and I agree! I can't help thinking in solutions and was kind of pointing the finger at myself;-)

 

[Zeotrope]

Absolutely, and I agree! I can't help thinking in solutions and was kind of pointing the finger at myself;-)

If we didn't have people who thought about solutions to problems and were willing to risk failure, we would still be swinging from trees...
or listening to streamers that cost 5X more and looked like they were designed by apes. (Sorry, I had to go there)

 

[Bobvin]

The above is good to share, and indeed correct, but mainly concerns AC light sources such as those that we use to light our rooms. In DC applications, such as within a music server, one can also use PWM and I'm sure some companies do, but it is better to vary the brightness of a LED by selecting the value of a resistor. This is what is usually done and it results in a reduced fixed brightness for the LED but no harm to the sound. Theoretically, one could have multiple resistor values and use software to choose between them, which should theoretically not influence the sound quality.

But let's not give Emile any more ideas because he already has more than he has time to bring them to fruition!

Stepped attenuation for the LED, oh my! I would assume there are different value (brightness) LEDs too, so you could potentially have three lined up, a dim, less dim, and bright one. Which is cheaper the resistor or the diode?

A trivial matter to be sure, but when paying $30k for a computer (don’t hate me!) not outside the bounds of “extreme-ness”. I won’t be disappointed if this remains way, way down the potential feature list.

I appreciate the dimming sheets that were offered up-thread, I’ve been using all kinds of objects on components for years those seem easier and much more elegant than some of my ‘solutions’.

 

[Steve Williams]

If truly this little LED around the front power switch is all people can gripe about wrt the Extreme, I would say Taiko has no worries. Clearly the users have never used tubes in their systems . There are such easy options to minimize the stated unwanted glare but to mess with the Extreme for something so petty is IMO "extremely" unnecessary

 

[Bobvin]

If truly this little LED around the front power switch is all people can gripe about wrt the Extreme, I would say Taiko has no worries. Clearly the users have never used tubes in their systems . There are such easy options to minimize the stated unwanted glare but to mess with the Extreme for something so petty is IMO "extremely" unnecessary

You’re certainly welcome to that opinion Steve. Other mfg’s have deemed it worthy of inclusion in their products — my Pilium pre-amp display is dimmable (alas, not the power supply or amp’s LED), my ARC Ref10 and Ref160 monos had dimmable display and meters, including completely OFF. (And most tubes have a faint glow, not a bright beam that lights up the wall opposite.) Many reviews I have read over the years have said OFF yields the best sound, but usually associated with backlit displays of some type. That user’s resort to all manner of tweaks to reduce light pollution in their listening rooms suggests it is a matter many care about. Wish-listing a feature harms no-one, the mfg gets to decide what gets implemented. A bright LED isn’t going to be a purchase decision for an audiophile, but no harm asking for a solution.

 

[Steve Williams]

You’re certainly welcome to that opinion Steve. Other mfg’s have deemed it worthy of inclusion in their products — my Pilium pre-amp display is dimmable (alas, not the power supply or amp’s LED), my ARC Ref10 and Ref160 monos had dimmable display and meters, including completely OFF. (And most tubes have a faint glow, not a bright beam that lights up the wall opposite.) Many reviews I have read over the years have said OFF yields the best sound, but usually associated with backlit displays of some type. That user’s resort to all manner of tweaks to reduce light pollution in their listening rooms suggests it is a matter many care about. Wish-listing a feature harms no-one, the mfg gets to decide what gets implemented. A bright LED isn’t going to be a purchase decision for an audiophile, but no harm asking for a solution.

thanks for understanding. To me in the great scheme of things it is but a drop in the ocean when talking about the Extreme. I have owned gear with dimmable meters and screens and enjoyed their function but it doesn't' bother me at all with the Extreme. To me it is a non issue. I prefer looking forward to the OS update and the release of XDMS, things that make the Extreme, well..... Extreme

 

[oldmustang]

Hi Steve,
I can see the utility of such sleeves but one thing I would check is to make sure there is adequate contact pressure exerted by the plug….the fact that these plugs can just fall out would indicate that the plug contacts are exerting very little pressure on the prongs. Are you certain you are actually seating your plugs fully? Whenever I insert an IEC plug into its socket I wear white gloves so I can really give the plug a solid push, while supporting the component from the front to prevent it sliding off the rack. I will often feel the plug ‘fully seat’ when this extra pressure is applied. The same procedure is necessary to unplug the component as there is usually substantial resistance before the plug can be withdrawn. This is very important with lightweight components but even the heavyweights will slide when sufficient pressure is applied to fully seat the plug. Just a thought

Thank you very much for the suggestion. I do much the same procedure but use a handy microfiber cloth to protect the equipment faces from fingerprints when I fully seat my power cords (or any connectors, really). I'd use white gloves but I can never seem to find them when I want them.

The equipment all turns on, which I agree is no guarantee that a plug is fully seated. With the cord retention sleeves on the IEC plugs they are not only seated the socket now grips the plug end very securely mechanically.

At $0.58 USD/each they are cheap insurance.

Steve Z

 

[Koegz]

Can anyone please explain the difference between Serial Play, Batch Play and HQ Play on TAS? Other then that Serial is free. Some music won’t play on Serial and wondering if it may have limitations? Thanks

 

[Steve Williams]

Can anyone please explain the difference between Serial Play, Batch Play and HQ Play on TAS? Other then that Serial is free. Some music won’t play on Serial and wondering if it may have limitations? Thanks

The serial player takes longer to load into queue so perhaps it was a big file and you didn’t wait long enough or you tried to load too many. I think serial is 25 and batch is 500

 

[Koegz]

Thanks for the reply. I have waited several min several times. My dac (MSB) shows no indication of a song playing. Always seems to have CBR like this one, “1017 kbps CBR, 44.1khz, APE” in the digital description as shown in TAS.
Thanks

 

[oldmustang]

Thanks for the reply. I have waited several min several times. My dac (MSB) shows no indication of a song playing. Always seems to have CBR like this one, “1017 kbps CBR, 44.1khz, APE” in the digital description as shown in TAS.
Thanks

If I'm not mistaken, APE is a file format and I'm not sure that TAS supports APE.

OK, here is APE:

APE File: How to open APE file (and what it is)

What is an APE file? Learn about the file formats using this extension and how to open APE files. Download an APE opener. At file.org we know files.

file.org

Steve Z

 

[Koegz]

sounds plausible, They do work with Roon though.

 

[Levitator]

Thanks for the reply. I have waited several min several times. My dac (MSB) shows no indication of a song playing. Always seems to have CBR like this one, “1017 kbps CBR, 44.1khz, APE” in the digital description as shown in TAS.
Thanks

Also worth checking you have the latest firmware update on the MSB - I had an issue playing files (not APE though) and the firmware update seemed to address the issue - just in case…

 

[cat6man]

thanks for understanding. To me in the great scheme of things it is but a drop in the ocean when talking about the Extreme. I have owned gear with dimmable meters and screens and enjoyed their function but it doesn't' bother me at all with the Extreme. To me it is a non issue. I prefer looking forward to the OS update and the release of XDMS, things that make the Extreme, well..... Extreme

i agree completely steve but since i have tube amps, my living room is never completely dark anyway
and my wife doesn't mind

on the other hand, yesterday my wife made her first ever observation related to the Extreme (i had it for 4 months before she even noticed it on the rack).........while listening to a very fine 1969 live concert in Ohio by Simon and Garfunkel, she asked "why does the sound go away for 5 seconds in between every song?"

as the brits say, "mind the gap"..........now that i can get worked up about (but i know gapless playback is coming with xmds)

 

[Koegz]

Hi Levitater, Yes I needed to up date. Unfortunately it didn’t solve my issue.. Thanks for the idea though.
koegz

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

The Extreme does not do gap-less playback...how on earth are you possibly going to listen to The Wall or any other concept album.
Years ago I was an early adopter of Plex (lifetime member), got all excited and ripped all my cd's and went to play The Wall and found out no gap-less playback. Got my cd player back out and that was the end of that. They had a workaround for that through a very poorly implemented theater app that they discontinued. Thousands of requests to add the feature from paying members and nothing but the finger. Been a few years should log in and see if they added it...yet.

Glad Emile is investing the time and effort for that to be a reality, its part of the artists intended listening experience.
He seems like a stand up guy / company.