Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Stereophonic]

There is no argument:

1) Yes trial & error is part of our ongoing development.

2) I have zero doubt the Wadax Reference server with Akasa interface is the best partner for the Wadax Reference DAC.

Once again, you are who are talking about Wadax now..... and no mention about why do you trust in trial and error development and the risks that it implies as it has being well proved in your own suggested link.
This is surrealistic....

 

[2ndLiner]

Dude, @Stereophonic, does your interest in making the world safe for proper methods of research extend to other industries, i.e., nuclear power, interstellar travel…

 

[Taiko Audio]

Once again, you are who are talking about Wadax now..... and no mention about why do you trust in trial and error development and the risks that it implies as it has being well proved in your own suggested link.
This is surrealistic....

I can read other threads too you know

With all due respect, this is my last reply to this particular "conversation".

 

[spiritofmusic]

Have I got this right? Extreme out of the box w Roon wowed everyone? Then TAS wowed them even more? Now Roon on Extreme current optimal sounds even wow-ier? And XMOS promises to be wow-ier still? Escalating levels of wow, no downside?
And yes, Mike finds plenty of wow via Wadax.
Stereophonic, I can't see what there is to complain about, let alone be so grouchy.

 

[oldmustang]

 

[Steve Williams]

Have I got this right? Extreme out of the box w Roon wowed everyone? Then TAS wowed them even more? Now Roon on Extreme current optimal sounds even wow-ier? And XMOS promises to be wow-ier still? Escalating levels of wow, no downside?
And yes, Mike finds plenty of wow via Wadax.
Stereophonic, I can't see what there is to complain about, let alone be so grouchy.

Update:

Dear Extreme owners. I'm sure you are all wondering what happened to the announced pre-Christmas XDMS release. We are currently rewriting XDMS to implement some fundamental process changes for the following reason:

Digging deep into the wondrous realms of software influence on playback sound quality we have made a few rather significant discoveries. Right now we have an Extreme here fitted with an updated operating system, running Roon, which significantly outperforms the current operating system, running TAS and even XDMS (!). We are now working on implementing this to work with TAS, so it will be ahead again, and XDMS is being partially overhauled to implement this natively into its code.

We will release this update, which can be applied by a remote teamviewer session, as soon as we have TAS up to speed, which I expect to be ready in about 2 weeks. TAS is now actually at a disadvantage as it relies on the good old Logitech Media Server for the front end, but XDMS being 100% native and "modern" efficient 64 bit code lacks this disadvantage and with the code changes currently implemented should be the solid sound quality leader.

If Emile says that the upgrade in the new OS makes Roon better than TAS or XDMS I believe him. However if he also says that rewriting the code for XDMS and using the new OS will make XDMS the sonic leader, I believe that as well. Emile has yet to be wrong on any comment or statement he has made to date

 

[oldmustang]

On a completely different topic --

Last night I tried an experiment with my local network to see if it had any audible sonic impact when playing music from the Extreme.

I purchased an inexpensive three-pack of Feit WiFi power switches and used one of them to switch power on and off to the LPS supplying the OpticalModule sending data via fiber from the rest of my network to the Extreme. I listened to tracks resident on the Extreme as well as streamed from Qobuz and Tidal, several times for each track with either the OM powered up, or, as soon as the first notes played, switched off. Finally, I did a "blind" series where I queued up some very familiar tracks and without looking at my iPhone tapped the Feit on/off switch icon quickly a bunch of times so that I would not know if the switch was on or off until the end of the track.

Results?

Although I "thought" there might have been a slight -- and I mean very, very slight -- improvement in sound quality with the LAN disconnected from the Extreme, the "random" trials quickly disabused me of that notion. I was not able to predict with any accuracy whether the OM was on or off.

This result flies in the face of reports from folks including some I know very well and whose judgement and ability to hear subtle nuances is beyond reproach. I don't know why my experience would differ, other than perhaps having a relatively simple LAN and having taken pains to make sure both my modem/router and OpticalModule are powered by quality linear power supplies.

So in my case, I'm lucky -- one less thing to worry about.

Submitted as an anecdote trying to become data.

Steve Z

 

[Blackmorec]

Personally, I would say there’s very little merit in pursuing this most recent ’argument’ . As a fly fisherman the more ’takes’ a particular fly gets the more I use it. If the user base is uniformly ecstatic with the current state of play, then there’s really nothing more to be said and this is nothing but more good news for all involved.

 

[cat6man]

If Emile says that the upgrade in the new OS makes Roon better than TAS or XDMS I believe him. However if he also says that rewriting the code for XDMS and using the new OS will make XDMS the sonic leader, I believe that as well. Emile has yet to be wrong on any comment or statement he has made to date

if i read things correctly, there was a third point, and that was that by making OS changes we can further improve TAS as well, and that those changes could be available in a couple of weeks

so, we can have better sound quality from TAS while they rewrite xdms -- that sounds like a winner to me.

 

[adyc]

I suspect @Stereophonic is sent by AE to talk nonsense here. I know AE’s owner personally. They always like to trash talk competitions.

 

[wil]

Stereophonic, there are audiophiles who have to wait a year or more for simple orders to be fulfilled, or frustrating updates to be announced... I'd say these are an order of magnitude more irritating than Emile's process.

I don't get the above comment at all. Are there hordes of audiophiles frustrated with Taiko Audio? I doubt it!

 

[rando]

All this anger I'll put aside
My tears I know won't beat the river in your eyes
And with all my love
I will make them dry

 

[spiritofmusic]

Wil, that's exactly my point...ongoing upgrades are hardly an inconvenience since the "stock" option is so impressive to start, everything subsequent is an advance. Then again, waiting months for a mod or repair to be done after an item sent back, that's wholly frustrating.
Nothing in Emile's method compares.
That's why I find the criticism so baffling.

 

[Taiko Audio]

On a completely different topic --

Last night I tried an experiment with my local network to see if it had any audible sonic impact when playing music from the Extreme.

I purchased an inexpensive three-pack of Feit WiFi power switches and used one of them to switch power on and off to the LPS supplying the OpticalModule sending data via fiber from the rest of my network to the Extreme. I listened to tracks resident on the Extreme as well as streamed from Qobuz and Tidal, several times for each track with either the OM powered up, or, as soon as the first notes played, switched off. Finally, I did a "blind" series where I queued up some very familiar tracks and without looking at my iPhone tapped the Feit on/off switch icon quickly a bunch of times so that I would not know if the switch was on or off until the end of the track.

Results?

Although I "thought" there might have been a slight -- and I mean very, very slight -- improvement in sound quality with the LAN disconnected from the Extreme, the "random" trials quickly disabused me of that notion. I was not able to predict with any accuracy whether the OM was on or off.

This result flies in the face of reports from folks including some I know very well and whose judgement and ability to hear subtle nuances is beyond reproach. I don't know why my experience would differ, other than perhaps having a relatively simple LAN and having taken pains to make sure both my modem/router and OpticalModule are powered by quality linear power supplies.

So in my case, I'm lucky -- one less thing to worry about.

Submitted as an anecdote trying to become data.

Steve Z

Thank you for reporting, the mayority of the evidence is indeed pointing towards the router / modem / ISP. A solution is in the works, though you don’t appear to be in need of one

 

[wil]

On a completely different topic --

Last night I tried an experiment with my local network to see if it had any audible sonic impact when playing music from the Extreme.

I purchased an inexpensive three-pack of Feit WiFi power switches and used one of them to switch power on and off to the LPS supplying the OpticalModule sending data via fiber from the rest of my network to the Extreme. I listened to tracks resident on the Extreme as well as streamed from Qobuz and Tidal, several times for each track with either the OM powered up, or, as soon as the first notes played, switched off. Finally, I did a "blind" series where I queued up some very familiar tracks and without looking at my iPhone tapped the Feit on/off switch icon quickly a bunch of times so that I would not know if the switch was on or off until the end of the track.

Results?

Although I "thought" there might have been a slight -- and I mean very, very slight -- improvement in sound quality with the LAN disconnected from the Extreme, the "random" trials quickly disabused me of that notion. I was not able to predict with any accuracy whether the OM was on or off.

This result flies in the face of reports from folks including some I know very well and whose judgement and ability to hear subtle nuances is beyond reproach. I don't know why my experience would differ, other than perhaps having a relatively simple LAN and having taken pains to make sure both my modem/router and OpticalModule are powered by quality linear power supplies.

So in my case, I'm lucky -- one less thing to worry about.

Submitted as an anecdote trying to become data.

Steve Z

Steve, do you hear a difference between streamed and hard drive files? (independent of the network being active or not?)

 

[howiebrou]

Steve, do you hear a difference between streamed and hard drive files? (independent of the network being active or not?)

On my extreme I can't. Both hard drive files and streamed files are equally excrutiating. I don't know why I put up with it!

 

[oldmustang]

Steve, do you hear a difference between streamed and hard drive files? (independent of the network being active or not?)

With some selections I do, other times if there is a difference it's very subtle. It really varies by album and track and the direct comparisons are confounded by almost never being able to be sure the local tracks I've ripped from CD or downloaded are identical to what is being streamed. I haven't counted but my sense is that it is right around 50/50 and I have certainly heard more than a few times the same resolution streaming file sounding as good or even better than what I have ripped to the Extreme storage.

I can say that unless the album or track is very old, or indifferently recorded that both streaming files and hard drive files are close enough that any difference between the two is not enough to detract from the enjoyment.

The exception to the above is Tidal MQA files -- I have heard some, a few, that qualify as the best digital version of a song or albums I've heard, but those are in the minority. Most of the Tidal MQA files sound to me somewhere between "a little off" to "overly processed to the point of being hard to listen to".

Steve

 

[oldmustang]

On my extreme I can't. Both hard drive files and streamed files are equally excrutiating. I don't know why I put up with it!

I know -- I keep going back to listening to the Extreme because I can't believe it! Sometimes I listen for hours and hours.

Steve Z

 

[Stereophonic]

I suspect @Stereophonic is sent by AE to talk nonsense here. I know AE’s owner personally. They always like to trash talk competitions.

Yes. I’m who put an Asian elixir to cheat Mike and push him to sell his Extreme….

 

[2ndLiner]

Yes. I’m who put an Asian elixir to cheat Mike and push him to sell his Extreme….

Unsolicted Advice Alert!!! Please give the shart-sturring device that resides between your ears a rest and allow us Taiko users to delight in our blissful ignorance…