Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Blackmorec]

Worth bearing in mind that at least in my system with its Innuos Statement rather than Extreme, the network components are similarly sensitive to vibration as the server and all the other system electronics. I have my entire network installed on vibration isolating/grounding supports and it makes a small but very significant difference in removing elements that generate sonic clues that you’re listening to hi-fi rather than music. Removing those resonance exciting vibrations really does help the sonics sound more natural and organic. It can be the difference between excellent and ‘shivers-down-the -spine’.

Also, I’ve found that using a medical stethoscope is the perfect way to optimize set-up of a rack‘s shelves and any hard-footed devices thereupon. Just make sure you’re VERY gentle in placing the stethescope when its in your ears. With the stethoscope placed on your shelf, gently place a finger on the 2 diagonal corners and try to rock the shelf by alternating pressure. If you hear any sound, you need to adjust the shelf support. Do the same for hard footed devices and see if you can hear any noise when you try to rock the device across its diagonals. For items using 4 rubber feet, slide a very thin strip of paper between front left foot and shelf and while applying enough upward pressure on the same corner to just ’tip’ but not lift the device, slide the paper out, noting the level of resistance. Do the same for the right foot. If the restance is the same, all 4 feet are in good contact with the shelf. If the paper slips out easier on one side, you should shim the diagonally opposing back foot until resistance is equal. You’ll be surprised at the amount of ‘precision’, detail and overall musicality correctly shimming components can achieve. Its not in itself massive but all these things add up and their effect is definitely reflected in the overall enjoyment the system generates and its ‘believability’.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Here's my question. I use local audio files stored on my pc computer. I'm using a J Cat Net Femto card with the separate regulated Optimo 3 duo power supply. It goes to a local router and then to a Innuos reclocking switch. This goes to my MSB dac. The sound is great. What would getting a Talko Extreme do for me? I'm not interested in streaming. I need people who had this not just speculation. Would my sound be more organic. I have the stage, detail, and musicality now. The dirty computer is in another room with a different circuit.

Hi @Jeffy ,

There are many reports in this thread of people moving from DIY efforts to the Extreme, however this has become a really long thread hence I'll list 2 comprehensive reports from forum members @romaz and @ray-dude which have been published online:

Here's the report from @romaz :
https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-experience.html

And here a 5 piece report from @ray-dude :
Part 1: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...the-taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-part-1-of-5-r907/

Part 2: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...the-taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-part-2-of-5-r908/

Part 3: Reality Quest: Going to Extremes with the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme (Part 3 of 5) - Reviews - Audiophile Style

Part 4: Reality Quest: Going to Extremes with the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme (Part 4 of 5) - Reviews - Audiophile Style

Part 5: Reality Quest: Going to Extremes with the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme (Part 5 of 5) - Reviews - Audiophile Style

 

[Jeffy]

Hi @Jeffy ,
Th comprehensive reports from forum members @romaz and @ray-dude which have been published online:

Here's the report from @romaz :
https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-experience.html

And here a 5 piece report from @ray-dude :
Part 1: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...the-taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-part-1-of-5-r907/

Part 2: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...the-taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-part-2-of-5-r908/

Part 3: Reality Quest: Going to Extremes with the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme (Part 3 of 5) - Reviews - Audiophile Style

Part 4: Reality Quest: Going to Extremes with the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme (Part 4 of 5) - Reviews - Audiophile Style

Part 5: Reality Quest: Going to Extremes with the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme (Part 5 of 5) - Reviews - Audiophile Style

Thanks for sending this, but it really didn't help me. He went from extreme DIY to almost exactly the same with the Taiko. I am not interested in doing this. I don't see the purpose of the Taiko or other streamers if you still have to do all these things.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks for sending this, but it really didn't help me. He went from extreme DIY to almost exactly the same with the Taiko. I am not interested in doing this. I don't see the purpose of the Taiko or other streamers if you still have to do all these things.

Well this is definitely an exception to "the rule". Most stick to buying a decent USB cable and Power cord, myself included

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Thanks for sending this, but it really didn't help me. He went from extreme DIY to almost exactly the same with the Taiko. I am not interested in doing this. I don't see the purpose of the Taiko or other streamers if you still have to do all these things.

The thing is, though, that with the Extreme, you really don't need to do all that. This server is considered one of the very best in its stock form. This person is simply approaching music servers from a DIY perspective. In the MonoStereo article, it is frequently stated that mild improvements can be heard here and there but that the benefits are relative and not something for all (prospective) buyers to pursue.

 

[Blackmorec]

Here's my question. I use local audio files stored on my pc computer. I'm using a J Cat Net Femto card with the separate regulated Optimo 3 duo power supply. It goes to a local router and then to a Innuos reclocking switch. This goes to my MSB dac. The sound is great. What would getting a Talko Extreme do for me? I'm not interested in streaming. I need people who had this not just speculation. Would my sound be more organic. I have the stage, detail, and musicality now. The dirty computer is in another room with a different circuit.

Hi Jeffy, I have 3 comments
1. when a system is sounding great, you almost always have difficulty to imagine where any improvements will come from. When a system gets to a certain point in fidelity it generally does all the hi-fi stuff quite adequately, spectacularly even. In such systems improvements usually come in how you respond to the music and how it makes you feel…..with the potential to go from nicely comfortable and satisfied to a teary-eyed, blissed-out state of almost disbelief about how much more your system ‘moves’ you and allows you to feel the music. Music is an incredibly powerful generator of feelings and most hi-fis only hint at this potential.
2. You really need to take a good look at your network to make sure you have the optimum set-up. For me, the router you mention sounds misplaced…..I would want to go Femto Card, Innuos Switch, DAC. Also that router needs as good or better power supply as your Femto card otherwise you just add noise, ripple and jitter to the Femto card‘s output and potentially loose all the Femto card’s ’goodness’ and benefits.
3. Are you sure you’ll never want remote streaming, even if it sounds as good as locally stored files? It always gives me a kick to read about some great tracks or albums and 5 minutes later they're a part of my collection. Remote streaming is the record collectors definition of instant gratification. Also, when you have albums by an artist you really enjoy, with remote streaming you can complete your album collection in seconds. Finally, you may have the local version of a CD and hear that the HD version has just released. Do you really want to buy it again or simply click the ‘heart’ ICON to make it part of your collection?

 

[Jeffy]

Hi Jeffy, I have 3 comments
1. when a system is sounding great, you almost always have difficulty to imagine where any improvements will come from. When a system gets to a certain point in fidelity it generally does all the hi-fi stuff quite adequately, spectacularly even. In such systems improvements usually come in how you respond to the music and how it makes you feel…..with the potential to go from nicely comfortable and satisfied to a teary-eyed, blissed-out state of almost disbelief about how much more your system ‘moves’ you and allows you to feel the music. Music is an incredibly powerful generator of feelings and most hi-fis only hint at this potential.
2. You really need to take a good look at your network to make sure you have the optimum set-up. For me, the router you mention sounds misplaced…..I would want to go Femto Card, Innuos Switch, DAC. Also that router needs as good or better power supply as your Femto card otherwise you just add noise, ripple and jitter to the Femto card‘s output and potentially loose all the Femto card’s ’goodness’ and benefits.
3. Are you sure you’ll never want remote streaming, even if it sounds as good as locally stored files? It always gives me a kick to read about some great tracks or albums and 5 minutes later they're a part of my collection. Remote streaming is the record collectors definition of instant gratification. Also, when you have albums by an artist you really enjoy, with remote streaming you can complete your album collection in seconds. Finally, you may have the local version of a CD and hear that the HD version has just released. Do you really want to buy it again or simply click the ‘heart’ ICON to make it part of your collection?

You make sense. I use the local router so I can use my Ipad with Jay River and play my music. Yes the local router is plugged into the Optimo 3 power supply just like the Jcat card. No I don't want to stream, I like to own all my music. When the streaming companies go out of business I still have my music.

 

[Rhapsody]

You make sense. I use the local router so I can use my Ipad with Jay River and play my music. Yes the local router is plugged into the Optimo 3 power supply just like the Jcat card. No I don't want to stream, I like to own all my music. When the streaming companies go out of business I still have my music.

Hi Jeffy, Streaming doesn't mean giving up your own music. A LOT of people only stream. imho there is little chance that all the streaming companies will go out of business, BUT a LOT of people, not sure of the percentage, stream and also have their own music libraries. The beauty of streaming servers with gobs of memory

Discovering new music and like Blackmorec said hearing about a new track/album and in literally a few minutes being able to hear it and then see, if it's your preference, buy/download it, is an AMAZING capability that streaming brings to the party.

To each his own, but personally streaming has opened the floodgates for a new and enlightening musical experience in so many ways that is not available sans streaming. Just some food for thought.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Alternatively, you could look at Artesania's Organic line, the modular floor platform, which is more affordable than the Aire as well as smaller and more manageable, should you want to place it under a rack. And then, of course, there are the Taiko Daiza platforms! I've not heard them yet but given my experiences with Tankwood so far, I have a good feeling about them.

Thanks for the information. Could you expand on the sonic differences between them?

 

[Christiaan Punter]

You make sense. I use the local router so I can use my Ipad with Jay River and play my music. Yes the local router is plugged into the Optimo 3 power supply just like the Jcat card. No I don't want to stream, I like to own all my music. When the streaming companies go out of business I still have my music.

I totally agree with you that it is better to own your music than to only stream but as someone who has held off on streaming until relatively recently, I can tell you that it is very convenient. I use it also as a preview tool, purchasing what I really like, either as a download or a CD that I then rip and store.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Thanks for the information. Could you expand on the sonic differences between them?

For that, I would refer you to my respective Artesania reviews on HFA. They are very detailed and will explain it all

Artesania Organic Line Modular Floor Platform | HFA - The Independent Source for Audio Equipment Reviews (hifi-advice.com)
Artesania Aire Floor Platform | HFA - The Independent Source for Audio Equipment Reviews (hifi-advice.com)
Artesania Organic Line Modular Rack | HFA - The Independent Source for Audio Equipment Reviews (hifi-advice.com)

 

[gds7368]

I use Core Audio Designs racks by Arnold Marr. Beautiful to behold, they present music in a natural, tonally balanced, impactful way. My Extreme sits atop a Daiza platform. Magically engaging on a regular basis!

Those racks look like works of art! BEAUTIFUL !!!
(Great looking system as well)

 

[Blackmorec]

You make sense. I use the local router so I can use my Ipad with Jay River and play my music. Yes the local router is plugged into the Optimo 3 power supply just like the Jcat card. No I don't want to stream, I like to own all my music. When the streaming companies go out of business I still have my music.

Hi Jeffy, Please don‘t think I’m questioning or judging your choices….they‘re yours to make. I’m just commenting for you and other readers to consider possible alternatives.

1. Remote streaming companies like Qobuz and Tidal are just distribution channels, like Tower Records. If they go away, there’ll be others to take their place, otherwise the music industry, with their huge back catalogs are dead and their multi-billion $$$ investments suddenly worthless. It just won‘t happen. There’s simply too much money involved and as we all know, like mass and gravity, money attracts more money. The big music companies want you to keep consuming their product so they keep generating profit. Its been like that since the time of 78s. If Qobuz and Tidal vanish. Its because they’ve been replaced either by something better or because the music companies have found a way to extract more profit from consumers, for example by forming their own streaming enterprises.

2. Not sure I fully grasp the architecture of your system. Having said that, with the PC, JRiver and the local router deployed as you’ve indicated, a less expensive server like an Innuos Zenith in place of the PC and router will in all probability outperform your current set-up. I would guess that something like a Extreme, along with a small adjustment in your network layout will massively outperform your current system. I could imagine you being quite shocked by the contrast, but this is of course just my opinion.

 

[Jeffy]

Hi Jeffy, Please don‘t think I’m questioning or judging your choices….they‘re yours to make. I’m just commenting for you and other readers to consider possible alternatives.

1. Remote streaming companies like Qobuz and Tidal are just distribution channels, like Tower Records. If they go away, there’ll be others to take their place, otherwise the music industry, with their huge back catalogs are dead and their multi-billion $$$ investments suddenly worthless. It just won‘t happen. There’s simply too much money involved and as we all know, like mass and gravity, money attracts more money. The big music companies want you to keep consuming their product so they keep generating profit. Its been like that since the time of 78s. If Qobuz and Tidal vanish. Its because they’ve been replaced either by something better or because the music companies have found a way to extract more profit from consumers, for example by forming their own streaming enterprises.

2. Not sure I fully grasp the architecture of your system. Having said that, with the PC, JRiver and the local router deployed as you’ve indicated, a less expensive server like an Innuos Zenith in place of the PC and router will in all probability outperform your current set-up. I would guess that something like a Extreme, along with a small adjustment in your network layout will massively outperform your current system. I could imagine you being quite shocked by the contrast, but this is of course just my opinion.

I don't disagree with you at all. I would like to know what I would gain in the sonics.

 

[dminches]

I don't disagree with you at all. I would like to know what I would gain in the sonics.

Like you, I started with a DIY approach. My DIY server included a $6k Sean Jacobs DC4 power supply, so it wasn't lightweight.

For me, I wasn't emotionally engaged in the digital music. With the Extreme that is no longer the case. All the musical detail was there along with much greater separation between the instruments. The Extreme made listening to digital music as enjoyable as tape or vinyl.

If you are already there then maybe you don't need to change anything.

 

[Rhapsody]

I don't disagree with you at all. I would like to know what I would gain in the sonics.

I don't think you will know until you hear it. No one can really tell you as we don't know exactly what you are hearing now. I'm sure it sounds good. It always sounds good until you hear it sound much better.

I apologize if you explained that you can't audition an Extreme, I didn't read back through your posts. It would be a good experience for you, not to buy, just for the experience to hear an Extreme with both files and streaming. If you ever get the opportunity, please do report back.

 

[Bobvin]

I totally agree with you that it is better to own your music than to only stream but as someone who has held off on streaming until relatively recently, I can tell you that it is very convenient. I use it also as a preview tool, purchasing what I really like, either as a download or a CD that I then rip and store.

I too used to like owning all my music, now i reserve that [mostly] for vinyl. One great thing about streaming is I don’t have to own all the tracks of a particular release when I only care for one or two. Why buy the whole album just to listen to your favorite cut (when the rest are okay or just filler material)? I also find releases with a couple really well recorded, well produced tracks, the balance sound like they were recorded in a garage with a toy microphone.

 

[Blackmorec]

As Rhapsody says, anything anybody says about sonic improvements is pure speculation as we don‘t know how your current systems sounds. However I’m game for a little speculation, based on the logic that somehow underlies hi-fi.
Your current system is far from chopped liver. A Jcat card, Optima 3 LPS and MSB DAC are not going to generate bad sounds….far from it. BUT the rest of your system is going to hold those components back considerably, potentially massively. If you take a PC vs something like an Innuos server, the PC is designed for home computing, with everything that entails….printers, plotters, scanners, screens, keyboards, graphics, hosts of applications, huge amounts of I/O, networking etc etc. none of which is remotely optimized for audio. But what does optimized means? Well in a stream of consciousness it can mean:
minimising unnecessary CPU loading
minimizing EMI radiation
minimizing vibration and resonance
optimizing power supplies
optimizing operating systems for ’audio only’ operation
dropping unnecessary i/O operations
minimizing network traffic
moving network traffic from ‘pull‘ (anything for me?) to push (here’s something for you)
minimising CPU interrupts
optimizing clocks
optimizing EMI screening
selecting the best ’sounding’ processor
optimizing BIOS for audio
removing unnecessary components
suspending sensitive components
isolating sensitive components
heat management
optimizing RAM memory
optimizing mass storage
optimizing critical I/O ports
removing unneccessary LEDs
optimize the casework for better screening
optimizing cabling or removing it altogether
soldered joints instead of push-on fasteners
building superior I/O devices
writing superior music playing SW that leverages all the above improvements
Etc, etc.
If you did all the above (and more) to a PC and were really diligent about it , you’d end up with a dedicated server, so its not really hard to see why there’s a sonic difference. What is the difference? Well the first bit of logic is….better signal in, better signal out. Do all the above on a PC and imagine how much lower the noise and jitter could be at the data stream to the JCAT card. That card is going to punch out a far superior data stream. Now imagine that instead of going through a consumer grade router, that data stream goes straight to the Innuos. The Innuos input is going to be massively improved, so therefore is its output, so what’s arriving at the MSB DAC bears no relationship to the quality of what it previously received. The DAC will reward you with a far superior analog signal.
Differences? In a nutshell, you’re going to move from ‘playing data files in your room‘ to ‘music being played in a venue’. The difference will likely be transformative as you already have some great components and all you’re doing is removing all their limitIng factors like noise and jitter (timing jitter and phase noise) and optimizing all the processes required to create a more ‘perfect’ data stream. In greater detail you’ll probably hear a far more realistic portrayal of music playing in its original venue or in the acoustic created by the engineer (which is often no less thrilling). The music will be more vibrant, tonally more pure and transparent, have increased rhythmic drive and better timing, so you’ll have a far greater insight into the performers‘ musicianship. Transient attack and micro dynamics should markedly improve, going a long way further in convincing you that what you’re listening to is real. Your emotional response to the music should increase markedly and you’ll gain far greater insight into what the composer was trying to achieve. Oh and all the typical hi-fi stuff will also markedly improve, so both the music lover and audiophile are well served.
A server is essentially a very stripped down and optimized PC so spending say $2000 already sounds like a LOT for a complete non-audiophile computer-head. Spending whatever an Extreme costs must appear to be insanity, but if your goal is to enhance your life with music, the Extreme gives you rare access to levels of musical reward that was not available 5 years ago, except maybe for the most well heeled analog enthusiast prepared to spend a LOT more than an Extreme costs today on Vinyl or copies of master tapes.
Now one final word of warning. As far as the Taiko Extreme is concerned, all the above IS pure speculation, because its based on my experience fully optimizing the network around an Innuos Statement. Given that the Extreme is more than double the Statement’s price, my expectation is that the Extreme should significantly exceed the above.

 

[Blackmorec]

I too used to like owning all my music, now i reserve that [mostly] for vinyl. One great thing about streaming is I don’t have to own all the tracks of a particular release when I only care for one or two. Why buy the whole album just to listen to your favorite cut (when the rest are okay or just filler material). I also find releases with a couple really well recorded, well produced tracks, the balance sound like they were recorded in a garage with a toy microphone.

Yeah….some of the new Pink Floyd stuff for example. I thought I was going nuts as I’m going “wow, this is great” followed by ”holy mackerel this it really naff”. Beautiful spacious sound, followed by 4 musicians who sound like they’re all occupying the same 100 square inches of real estate and getting horribly in each others’ way sonically

 

[2ndLiner]

Thanks, @gds7368! Even with my fuzzy photography the beauty of Arnold's racks shines through, ha! When I was looking to upgrade my low budget racks I was doing my research and the more I read the more confused I became given all the different principles and materials discussed. I happened upon a few postings (one from a "higher up" at Audiogon) that mentioned a company I'd never heard of, Core Audio Designs. I visited his website and became more intrigued and noticed his "factory" is close to where I live. I called him and we had a lengthy, fun conversation about music, life, and, oh yeah, his exquisite racks. It remains to this day one of the the best and most unique experiences I have had since I tumbled down the high end audio rabbit-hole and he was a pleasure to work with on every discernible level. FYI, lest my gushings arouse suspicion, I have no business relationship with Core Audio Designs, ha!