Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

MarkusBarkus

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Feb 6, 2021
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OK, I give up and have to ask: why can't I play Qobuz streams? I used to be able to. Can browse to it. Browse to recent purchases, etc. See it in queue, but tracks will not play? Is there a setting/procedure I'm missing? Thanks in advance...
 

jbrrp1

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Aug 3, 2020
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I've had Qobuz stop playing for me a couple of times now, and each time the only thing that got it going again was to reboot the Extreme. Have you tried that yet?
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
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taikoaudio.com
OK, I give up and have to ask: why can't I play Qobuz streams? I used to be able to. Can browse to it. Browse to recent purchases, etc. See it in queue, but tracks will not play? Is there a setting/procedure I'm missing? Thanks in advance...

Switch to Roon, play a Qobuz track, then switch back to TAS works too. We’re investigating what may be causing this.
 

iain

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2018
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I am of the same ilk as my good friend ddk who always uses the KISS technique (keep it simple stupid). Perhaps I got lucky with my network and its setup as I have never had the desire or felt even a need to use a switch . We all have known that it is Emile's game plan to be able to control the signal from the time it enters the Extreme until it leaves the Extreme. Hence we have TAS and the TAS driver with a proprietary USB board for the Extreme to be released in the next few weeks, as well as perhaps his own switch which would obviate the need for any other switch.

When I got started about 18 months ago Emile said that the prerequisites for good sound in his opinion were
1. A good power cord
2. An excellent USB cable
3. A very good ethernet cable
4. Excellent means for isolation and noise reduction

This is what I followed and I have never looked back

For my ears what really was a profound improvement was the use of the TAS driver which has resulted in a huge uptick in SQ. All users should hopefully have TAS driver version 5.0 which for me seems to be the secret sauce that brings everything together

For Emile it is all about providing the best SQ so in the past few weeks as more beta users come on board and offer feedback it seems from what Emile has been saying now is that he is not certain whether there will be any further benefits from the addition of a generic switch

I have bought into Emile's game plan and now, with the TAS driver my sound has never been better for digital. For me my interest is spurred on by the ever improving TAS SQ such that I have been following with great interest whether we Extreme users will see a proprietary Taiko switch. So for me and my system, I have never used or even had any desire to use a switch or switches in my system as I believe they can all change the SQ and I have no desire to go down that rabbit hole.I find it interesting that people are now abandoning their switches as the sound is simply better without their use according to their findings. So with all of this in ind, the "only" way that I will ever use a switch would be if Emile in his research finds that his proposed Taiko switch would impart even further improvement in SQ .......but lately we are reading in this thread that Emile is now not certain that there would be any further gain in SQ with the use of his switch. I guess we are finding that "less is indeed more" when it comes to TAS

Finally to all Extreme users who use a Lampizator as their DAC and find that their USB board is based on Amanero and not the current XMOS based USB Board based on JL Sounds, you MUST find a way to replace your amanero board. The TAS driver functions only for an XMOS based USB board and I am proof to tell you that that simple change created such a profound improvement in my sound that IMO this is mandatory if you want the best SQ that TAS can offer. For me, the pending Taiko USB board is next on my list. Only if Emile says his switch is mandatory for improved SQ in TAS will be my incentive to ever use a switch in my system.

The key for me ihas been the TAS driver v 5.0 but I must admit that I a looking forward to the upcoming USB board for the Extremecan,I ask a few

I am of the same ilk as my good friend ddk who always uses the KISS technique (keep it simple stupid). Perhaps I got lucky with my network and its setup as I have never had the desire or felt even a need to use a switch . We all have known that it is Emile's game plan to be able to control the signal from the time it enters the Extreme until it leaves the Extreme. Hence we have TAS and the TAS driver with a proprietary USB board for the Extreme to be released in the next few weeks, as well as perhaps his own switch which would obviate the need for any other switch.

When I got started about 18 months ago Emile said that the prerequisites for good sound in his opinion were
1. A good power cord
2. An excellent USB cable
3. A very good ethernet cable
4. Excellent means for isolation and noise reduction

This is what I followed and I have never looked back

For my ears what really was a profound improvement was the use of the TAS driver which has resulted in a huge uptick in SQ. All users should hopefully have TAS driver version 5.0 which for me seems to be the secret sauce that brings everything together

For Emile it is all about providing the best SQ so in the past few weeks as more beta users come on board and offer feedback it seems from what Emile has been saying now is that he is not certain whether there will be any further benefits from the addition of a generic switch

I have bought into Emile's game plan and now, with the TAS driver my sound has never been better for digital. For me my interest is spurred on by the ever improving TAS SQ such that I have been following with great interest whether we Extreme users will see a proprietary Taiko switch. So for me and my system, I have never used or even had any desire to use a switch or switches in my system as I believe they can all change the SQ and I have no desire to go down that rabbit hole.I find it interesting that people are now abandoning their switches as the sound is simply better without their use according to their findings. So with all of this in ind, the "only" way that I will ever use a switch would be if Emile in his research finds that his proposed Taiko switch would impart even further improvement in SQ .......but lately we are reading in this thread that Emile is now not certain that there would be any further gain in SQ with the use of his switch. I guess we are finding that "less is indeed more" when it comes to TAS

Finally to all Extreme users who use a Lampizator as their DAC and find that their USB board is based on Amanero and not the current XMOS based USB Board based on JL Sounds, you MUST find a way to replace your amanero board. The TAS driver functions only for an XMOS based USB board and I am proof to tell you that that simple change created such a profound improvement in my sound that IMO this is mandatory if you want the best SQ that TAS can offer. For me, the pending Taiko USB board is next on my list. Only if Emile says his switch is mandatory for improved SQ in TAS will be my incentive to ever use a switch in my system.

The key for me ihas been the TAS driver v 5.0 but I must admit that I a looking forward to the upcoming USB board for the Extreme
Sorry a bit off topic, but can I ask a couple of questions about the JL Sounds USB board? Do Lampizator use the standard card? And you mentioned on a previous post that you had it professionally installed. How hard is it to do? Thanks
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
It is the JL Sounds USB board that now come standard IIRC

I personally would never try doing it myself. You need a Loupe and needle tip soldering iron. The entire remove and install was perhaps 2 hours.
I did an extensive search of computer board repair shops near me. I spoke to each by phone. The one I used only does computer board repairs. i watched him do it and his was a very steady and experienced hand. I’ve had no issues with his job Cost me about $275 plus cost of the new USB board
 
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iain

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Jul 23, 2018
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It is the JL Sounds USB board that now come standard IIRC

I personally would never try doing it myself. You need a Loupe and needle tip soldering iron. The entire remove and install was perhaps 2 hours.
I did an extensive search of computer board repair shops near me. I spoke to each by phone. The one I used only does computer board repairs. i watched him do it and his was a very steady and experienced hand. I’ve had no issues with his job Cost me about $275 plus cost of the new USB board
Thanks, helpfully warned!
 

marty

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Apr 20, 2010
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Sorry a bit off topic, but can I ask a couple of questions about the JL Sounds USB board? Do Lampizator use the standard card? And you mentioned on a previous post that you had it professionally installed. How hard is it to do? Thanks

Steve had his installed in CA. I had mine installed by the North American Lampizator technician in Pennsylvania (about an hour drive from my home). Fred, the NA distributor told me the JL USB boards can also be installed by Lampi in Poland, but that requires shipping the unit back to the factory.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
For those who have never tried to improve their network, I can't help but quote Emile:

I can't say it any better.
I've heard so many times people saying that their system sounds so good, and there is absolutely no noise or distortion, hence they don't need to make any changes. That's great. Just enjoy your system and don't think about any upgrades.
However, this is noise that you CANNOT "hear". You don't know it is there until it's gone. You have absolutely no idea. I've been there so many times! The people saying that there is no noise or distortion in their audio system are simply wrong. Such system does not exist.
There is always a layer of noise or distortion that can be removed in any system. And you don't know it's there until you hear how the system sounds without that.

Let's look at a typical household Internet environment.
The all-in-one cable modems (routers/WiFi/VoIP/etc.) provided by our ISPs are cheap and noisy consumer devices. Connect your server to one of these, and a lot of that noise goes from the noisy device to your server. Now the server has to work much harder to clean up this noise. Imagine this - I live in the heart of Chicago and I have a coax cable coming to my house - this coax cable is connected to infrastructure that runs many miles and connects a big percentage of the homes in Chicago. Imagine how much noise is picked up by these coax cables running all over the city. Yes, they are well shielded, and yes, there is an isolation device in my house (installed by Xfinity) that removes some of that noise when the cable enters inside. But it cannot remove all the noise. And this is all before the cable is plugged into my cable modem. Then the cable modem is another noise generating device on its own. And it's powered by an awful switching mode power supply that by itself generates a lot of noise too. Not only the switching mode wall wart generates noise, but it also contaminates my electrical line. Before I started using linear power supplies, I used to connect those network devices on a different power phase than my audio equipment.

Some people are lucky enough to have fiber Internet delivered into their house. I believe Taiko's facility is lucky in that regard. That might be one of the reasons some of us give more attention to the network than Taiko. Fiber optic Internet is much better, because the fiber cable entering your house is not a big antenna wiring miles and miles of households. But that fiber cable still connects to a cheap consumer device powered by a noisy switching mode power supply. You are in a much better position but still nod ideal.

Then you have a WiFi in your house that also impacts your system in multiple different ways. On one side the WiFi signal in close proximity to your system has negative effects. This is actually what triggered this post. I woke up this morning and my system did not sound as good as it usually does. Apparently while cleaning my house someone has moved one of my WiFi access point very close to my system. I moved it further away and everything came back to normal. This was a real eye opener.
Back to the Wifi... on the other end, you have a copper cable that connects back to my network that also contaminates the network with noise generated by the WiFi device. And also you have another wall wart switching mode power supply that is potentially contaminating the power grid.

What do we do to make the situation better? In case of a cable Internet, I do the following:
1. Get rid of the crappy all-in-one devices sent by my ISP. You can think of this as replacing an A/V Receiver with separates - monoblocks, linestage, DAC, etc. The "separates" are:
- better quality dedicated cable modem - Arris SB8200 in my case.
- better quality dedicated router - Ubiquiti Edgerouter X SFP in my case.
- better quality WiFi access point - AmpliFi HD WiFi System by Ubiquiti in my case.
2. Get rid of the crappy wall wart switching mode power supplies and use better linear power supplies to power my equipment. That helps in two ways - less noise goes back to my power line and the device I am powering generates a little bit less noise. It also provides better regulated / cleaner power to the components inside the device I am powering which improves oscillators, reduces jitter, etc. but let's not go there.
3. Move the WiFi away from the audio system and isolate the WiFi access point from my router via a fiber optic cable. I wish I could illustrate that in a short video clip. The WiFi device is attacking your system in 3 different ways. It generates wireless signal that could be harmful when the device is close to your system. It generates noise that get send back via your copper CAT5/6/7/8 network cable. And it pollutes your power line with its crappy wall wart. By keeping it away from your system, isolating with a fiber optic cable and powering with a LPS you address all 3 issues to some extent.
4. Add a couple of switches with very clean power and better clocks. One is by my cable modem and router. The other one is by my audio system. They are connected with a fiber optic cable, which is yet another level of noise isolation between my main network equipment and my listening room......................
I won't dispute a word that you say. In fact I have tell you that I have been down all of the paths that you have taken in my audio travails. I used to tweak and modify everything. It is not a path I have any desire to descend into ever again. It is as if you re playing your music to hear your system rather than playing your system to hear the music.

I have probably been down more rabbit holes than you can imagine. My system now is quite mature and yes I am quite satisfied with what I am hearing. The only way that I would use a switch is if Emile manufacturers his own and sells it because he feels it makes a sonic improvement.

BTW I do use an Arris dedicated modem with an LPS as well as a LPS for my router. I have used many of your recommendations so I am at peace with my system now.
 

2ndLiner

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Dec 16, 2015
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As one who implements both the M12 Gold and the totally tricked-out Buffalo by @nenon I can say they have to great success made the music coming out of my speakers sound more lively and natural and gotten me closer to the experience of live music played in an acoustically dialed in environment. That I could experience this by adding the USB soundcard and removing the two switches is of great interest. If that plays out someone will be getting a couple of fantastic components at less than MSRP. If not, then the SQ of my system has taken another leap. Sounds like a win-win...
 
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cat6man

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Feb 6, 2013
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I won't dispute a word that you say. In fact I have tell you that I have been down all of the paths that you have taken in my audio travails. I used to tweak and modify everything. It is not a path I have any desire to descend into ever again. It is as if you re playing your music to hear your system rather than playing your system to hear the music.

I have probably been down more rabbit holes than you can imagine. My system now is quite mature and yes I am quite satisfied with what I am hearing. The only way that I would use a switch is if Emile manufacturers his own and sells it because he feels it makes a sonic improvement.

BTW I do use an Arris dedicated modem with an LPS as well as a LPS for my router. I have used many of your recommendations so I am at peace with my system now.

this is a longstanding issue in many engineering problems.

from a given starting point, we can perhaps add 5 or 6 improvements, each of which makes a large or small improvement.
however, the order in which these are introduced can have a profound impact on what we consider to have a large impact and which we consider small. as a general rule, but not always, the earlier an improvement is added the larger its perceived impact.

in a radio communication system, i can improve the performance by increasing the transmit power, or by more sophisticated signal processing techniques in the receiver or by a lower noise front end de-modulator or by adding diversity via space (antennas) or frequency or time. all of these things help but their relative incremental benefits vary with the order in which they are introduced.** Often diversity reception is the most beneficial (if not the cheapest) and the addition of antenna diversity makes some of the other methods almost redundant (e.g. if diversity reduces the probability of low SNR due to fading and makes it rarely seen, all those previously cool things that were designed to work at lower effective SNR have a diminished incremental benefit and perhaps none at all).

i suspect that the buffering and other improvements in usb driver 5.0, along with the new usb card, will prove similarly effective. it seems likely that a new paradigm will be upon us, as these insights into "what really matters" overtakes EFTM.

**
this has been known to drive (less technical) upper level management to infinite frustration, first by the idea that the relative benefits of A vs. B vs. C are not fixed or constant, and second that some earlier improvements may now be considered redundant and of no current value at all.
 
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dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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Question about tagging...

I know the LMS part of TAS is going away eventually but for now that's what we are using. I am working on cleaning up my tags but have noticed a number of times that I will correct a tag and rescan the files only to find that nothing has changed in the album artist view. For example, I had a file set with the artist and album artist set to "John Coltrane Quartet" but changed it to "John Coltrane" so all his albums fall under one artists. It is still showing up under "John Coltrane Quartet" even though that is erased from the meta data. I have other examples of this behavior.

Is there something else I should be doing to update my library? Is there a setting where LMS is getting information from some place other than my library?
 

MarkusBarkus

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Feb 6, 2021
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...along similar lines, should I trouble to redistribute hundreds and hundreds of files to specific folders to get better result sets? Search doesn't seem to reference meta-tags sometimes (often, actually).

Data was moved from Aurender; Conductor search returns jazz results regardless of which folder file was in.

I get this is not good data structure on my part, but files/folders were gathered from multiple sources over time.

Actually, search limitation is one of the more frustrating aspects of the current Beta, IMO. Perhaps I am not understanding correct usage of the tool.

Do folks recommend re-organizing files by genre folders and running search within that folder? Thank you.
 

oldmustang

Well-Known Member
Dec 1, 2012
1,071
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Question about tagging...

I know the LMS part of TAS is going away eventually but for now that's what we are using. I am working on cleaning up my tags but have noticed a number of times that I will correct a tag and rescan the files only to find that nothing has changed in the album artist view. For example, I had a file set with the artist and album artist set to "John Coltrane Quartet" but changed it to "John Coltrane" so all his albums fall under one artists. It is still showing up under "John Coltrane Quartet" even though that is erased from the meta data. I have other examples of this behavior.

Is there something else I should be doing to update my library? Is there a setting where LMS is getting information from some place other than my library?
One of the useful references for LMS issues that I use from time to time is:


Under scanning behavior it says:

"In some cases, Clear library and rescan everything may be required, although it shouldn't be used in typical usage.

"Edit - 17th December 2014. Mark Browell made some points about the reliability of "Look for new and changed media files" in the comments. Some examples:

  • Changing artist names doesn't remove now-unused artist names
  • Same for album names
  • Adding new tracks to an existing album creates a new album!
  • Doesn't handle multiple tags using a delimiter very well

"Which of these gremlins affect you depends on the version of LMS you are using. More here: Bug 17963 - New and changed doesn't handle changed files. The workaround is to use "Clear library and rescan everything"."

Farther up in the quoted reference the article describes how to choose the type of scanning from the web browser view of LMS (IP address:9000).

Hope this helps,

Steve Z
 
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dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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...along similar lines, should I trouble to redistribute hundreds and hundreds of files to specific folders to get better result sets? Search doesn't seem to reference meta-tags sometimes (often, actually).

Data was moved from Aurender; Conductor search returns jazz results regardless of which folder file was in.

I get this is not good data structure on my part, but files/folders were gathered from multiple sources over time.

Actually, search limitation is one of the more frustrating aspects of the current Beta, IMO. Perhaps I am not understanding correct usage of the tool.

Do folks recommend re-organizing files by genre folders and running search within that folder? Thank you.
Theoretically how files are organized on your hard drive shouldn’t affect how they appear in the viewer. I guess there could be minor exceptions to this. Some data handlers can’t handle albums in multiple folders. They treat them as separate albums.

However, my files are very well organized so it is easy to find them if I need to edit them or do something with them.
 

Kingsrule

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Feb 3, 2011
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I'm not touching a thing in my music file database during this beta roll out. When Logitech Media Server goes away then I'll be back grooming my music files. Too many moving parts still to be determined......

Of course YMMV
 
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dminches

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LMS or any other data program doesn’t change the meta data. If the meta data is wrong or inaccurate it will be in any program.
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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My thoughts exactly, that's why I was irritated by the results. Thanks guys, I will review the data, with the knowledge that things are in flux.

I am making changes to obvious errors, like misspellings. I will wait on making wholesale changes until the LMS-less version of TAS is released.
 

oldmustang

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Dec 1, 2012
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My thoughts exactly, that's why I was irritated by the results. Thanks guys, I will review the data, with the knowledge that things are in flux.
So, have you tried rescanning with the setting, "Clear library and rescan everything"?

Steve Z
 

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