Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

With respect to the Taiko Extreme how do you connect it to your DAC

  • USB

    Votes: 80 67.2%
  • Ethernet

    Votes: 21 17.6%
  • Both USB and Ethernet

    Votes: 12 10.1%
  • AES/EBU

    Votes: 12 10.1%
  • Dual AES/EBU

    Votes: 3 2.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 7 5.9%

  • Total voters
    119

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
2,076
2,059
615
Thanks Emile. I hadn’t heard either way but as I am considering getting an Extreme I am thinking about how much local storage to get. All my music is currently on a NAS. I am fine keeping it that way if I am not compromising sound quality.
I got 8TB and so far it's enough. You can always add more. My NAS is now relegated to backing up the Extreme.
 

cat6man

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2013
332
176
385
west of NYC, east of SF
What do folks see with Flac vs. Wav for stored files? In all my experience streaming, Wav has always been clearly better sounding. Does the extreme eliminate that difference?
The difference is about 2x in storage requirements, 3.5TB vs. 7TB for me.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,884
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435
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taikoaudio.com
You just know that when you do that, you will suddenly want to play those files...

I did replace most of my Redbook albums including my CD-rips with Qobuz favourites. My library has shrunk to below 4TB now, the majority being DXD and DSD recordings purchased online, 2XHD, highdeftapetransfers. nativedsd etc. These typically occupy around 4-6GB diskspace each. You do still need to check master qualities. If I purchase an album from Qobuz and download it, I cannot detect any differences beyond imaginary between those and their online versions with TAS. Roon starts very fast as a direct result of that, it takes around 6-8 seconds.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,884
3,140
435
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
What do folks see with Flac vs. Wav for stored files? In all my experience streaming, Wav has always been clearly better sounding. Does the extreme eliminate that difference?
The difference is about 2x in storage requirements, 3.5TB vs. 7TB for me.

That has always been very minor on the Extreme, a trade off between CPU cycles (flac decompression) and Disk active time (larger file). I have not tested the difference with TAS yet but do expect similar results.
 
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Blue58

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
680
348
410
London, UK
I did replace most of my Redbook albums including my CD-rips with Qobuz favourites. My library has shrunk to below 4TB now, the majority being DXD and DSD recordings purchased online, 2XHD, highdeftapetransfers. nativedsd etc. These typically occupy around 4-6GB diskspace each. You do still need to check master qualities. If I purchase an album from Qobuz and download it, I cannot detect any differences beyond imaginary between those and their online versions with TAS. Roon starts very fast as a direct result of that, it takes around 6-8 seconds.
Replaced most of my classical Redbook with Qobuz due to the tagging issues I had with many Redbook not showing up in TAS. I still have 10? DSD/DXD files mainly from HDTT that are not showing up in TAS and have no idea why. Too large a file?
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,884
3,140
435
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taikoaudio.com
Replaced most of my classical Redbook with Qobuz due to the tagging issues I had with many Redbook not showing up in TAS. I still have 10? DSD/DXD files mainly from HDTT that are not showing up in TAS and have no idea why. Too large a file?

Unlikely to be a size issue. Can you send us details on those files? Ideally the full pathname and filename, for example: D:\Jazz\Artist\album\trackname.extension. Can you also check if they are visible using the folder browse mode?

printscr.JPG
 

Blue58

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
680
348
410
London, UK
Unlikely to be a size issue. Can you send us details on those files? Ideally the full pathname and filename, for example: D:\Jazz\Artist\album\trackname.extension. Can you also check if they are visible using the folder browse mode?

View attachment 74517
Email sent to contack@Taiko Thanks
 
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Esotar

VIP/Donor
Mar 28, 2016
405
337
285
South Korea
www.digituslabs.kr
I found possibility of K-POP playback with SGM Extreme TAS.

My IPAD has the biggest K-POP and others streaming service app [BUGS].

I opened Bugs and entered player select option, then....


EST00223.JPG


ExtremeDirect~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then TAS???


EST00221.JPG


TAS showed Korean language and connected each other~!!!!!!

But

No Sound Yet...

I saw BUGS Setting and found good infos...


EST00224.JPG


오픈소스 라이선스 = "Open Source License"

So BUGS is free license app~!!!


EST00225.JPG


Emile

Edward

Please check BUGS app again.

Because TAS supports DLNA, Extreme users may enjoy K-POP.

BUGS' total musics are about 20,000,000 songs.

Among them, 10,000,000 songs are over 16bit / 44.1KHz.

If two heroes support BUGS, I'll request oversea payment to BUGS.

Emile and Edward are very very busy I know.

When you have time, please check BUGS.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,884
3,140
435
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
When we designed the Extreme about 2.5 years ago, network utilization was rather benign. The effect of your "network quality" was quite minimal. Back then I could just run a 25 meter / 75 foot cheap CAT5 network cable to a 20 Euro Netgear switch and get excellent results. Replacing the switch with a "better quality" one and using audiophile quality network cables was audible, but limited to being a "nice tweak", certainly not worth significant expense. We added a Fiber network card which did provide a small but nice increase in clarity for a very minor additional investment.

But as time passed things changed. A significant increase in network utilization caused by increased functionality provided by music playback software and perhaps an overall higher utilization / usage of network based sources started to increase the effect of your home network layout, up to a point where using higher quality switches became mayor.

With TAS we have found a way to turn back the clock to where we were in the early days of the Extreme as far as network quality sensitivity goes. The magnitude of the SQ delta between Roon and TAS for example therefor partially depends on the "quality" of your network makeup. TAS is simply not very sensitive to it. I am pleased to be able to report you can once again have very good results by just using a standard, non audiophile network setup.

I am going to repeat myself here on another feature of TAS which is the algorithm we developed to ameliorate differences in where your music is sourced from. I cannot take credit for this personally, the idea was concocted by @EuroDriver during a morning shower and further refined and coded by Wilson. Credit where credit's due. The virgin version was ready for sound testing 6 months ago and showed clear differences, it has gone through multiple iterations since then, and I'm sure it will go through many more in the future as there is no lack of ideas to further improve it. This is a significant invention as it has the potential to completely remove all and any differences between locations where your music files are sourced from, reducing file storage impact to lower the time it takes for the algorithm to execute it's cycle. This is not just simple file caching, nor a simple play from memory scheme. We do use a ram disk with TAS to store those files but the main reason for that is to reduce the algorithm execution time. As an additional bonus, it also improves playback quality from files on local storage.

So to answer a multitude of questions posted prior to this post, yes we are travelling a road where NAS, Qobuz or other remote storage location playback may become just as good as files sourced from local storage. How close we are right now is up to the BETA testers to cast their verdict on. If a BETA tester finds significant differences, please report those to us so we can investigate and remediate.

The bottom line being, there is a future in sight where you do not have to worry about how you rip your CDs, or where your files are located, or whether you've copied them too often. We will however never be able to remediate differences in mastering techniques. Though perhaps by other means as here's a link to the first recording mastered using an Extreme! HELMET OF GNATS: TRAVELOGUE
 
Last edited:

matthias

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2019
550
201
53
Germany
With TAS we have found a way to turn back the clock to where we were in the early days of the Extreme as far as network quality sensitivity goes. The magnitude of the SQ delta between Roon and TAS for example therefor partially depends on the "quality" of your network makeup. TAS is simply not very sensitive to it. I am pleased to be able to report you can once again have very good results by just using a standard, non audiophile network setup.

Emile,
does than mean that the Taiko switch is designed primarily for Roon users?
Thanks

Matt
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,884
3,140
435
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Emile,
does than mean that the Taiko switch is designed primarily for Roon users?
Thanks

Matt

Not the original intent but it may end up there.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,884
3,140
435
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
And I may assume that with TAS a WiFi connection (2,4GHz) can be used for the Extreme without SQ penalty?

Matt

If by means of say a Netgear Orbi connected to a wired Ethernet port, quite possibly yes. An internal WiFi card is a different story though.
 
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Ackcheng

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2011
37
27
360
digitalroomcorrection.hk
When we designed the Extreme about 2.5 years ago, network utilization was rather benign. The effect of your "network quality" was quite minimal. Back then I could just run a 25 meter / 75 foot cheap CAT5 network cable to a 20 Euro Netgear switch and get excellent results. Replacing the switch with a "better quality" one and using audiophile quality network cables was audible, but limited to being a "nice tweak", certainly not worth significant expense. We added a Fiber network card which did provide a small but nice increase in clarity for a very minor additional investment.

But as time passed things changed. A significant increase in network utilization caused by increased functionality provided by music playback software and perhaps an overall higher utilization / usage of network based sources started to increase the effect of your home network layout, up to a point where using higher quality switches became mayor.

With TAS we have found a way to turn back the clock to where we were in the early days of the Extreme as far as network quality sensitivity goes. The magnitude of the SQ delta between Roon and TAS for example therefor partially depends on the "quality" of your network makeup. TAS is simply not very sensitive to it. I am pleased to be able to report you can once again have very good results by just using a standard, non audiophile network setup.

I am going to repeat myself here on another feature of TAS which is the algorithm we developed to ameliorate differences in where your music is sourced from. I cannot take credit for this personally, the idea was concocted by @EuroDriver during a morning shower and further refined and coded by Wilson. Credit where credit's due. The virgin version was ready for sound testing 6 months ago and showed clear differences, it has gone through multiple iterations since then, and I'm sure it will go through many more in the future as there is no lack of ideas to further improve it. This is a significant invention as it has the potential to completely remove all and any differences between locations where your music files are sourced from, reducing file storage impact to lower the time it takes for the algorithm to execute it's cycle. This is not just simple file caching, nor a simple play from memory scheme. We do use a ram disk with TAS to store those files but the main reason for that is to reduce the algorithm execution time. As an additional bonus, it also improves playback quality from files on local storage.

So to answer a multitude of questions posted prior to this post, yes we are travelling a road where NAS, Qobuz or other remote storage location playback may become just as good as files sourced from local storage. How close we are right now is up to the BETA testers to cast their verdict on. If a BETA tester finds significant differences, please report those to us so we can investigate and remediate.

The bottom line being, there is a future in sight where you do not have to worry about how you rip your CDs, or where your files are located, or whether you've copied them too often. We will however never be able to remediate differences in mastering techniques. Though perhaps by other means as here's a link to the first recording mastered using an Extreme! HELMET OF GNATS: TRAVELOGUE
Emile, it would be great if the same technology can be applied post Roon output such that we can still enjoy the best sound quality with roon interface. In other words. Now the source doesn’t matter and hopefully, the player doesn’t matter too. BTW. Roon 1.8 is coming out soon
 
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EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2015
610
946
313
Monaco
Emile, it would be great if the same technology can be applied post Roon output such that we can still enjoy the best sound quality with roon interface. In other words. Now the source doesn’t matter and hopefully, the player doesn’t matter too. BTW. Roon 1.8 is coming out soon
I was thinking about exactly this in the shower this morning ;-)

Fundamently very difficult, but even to partly mitigate would be nice as well.
 

Blue58

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
680
348
410
London, UK
Unlikely to be a size issue. Can you send us details on those files? Ideally the full pathname and filename, for example: D:\Jazz\Artist\album\trackname.extension. Can you also check if they are visible using the folder browse mode?

View attachment 74517
Issue solved in less than an hour! What service above and beyond anything expected.
A huge thank you to Wilson for getting to the bottom of this and thank you to all the team once gain.

blue58
 

cmarin

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2011
61
92
423
Texas
The bottom line being, there is a future in sight where you do not have to worry about how you rip your CDs, or where your files are located, or whether you've copied them too often. We will however never be able to remediate differences in mastering techniques. Though perhaps by other means as here's a link to the first recording mastered using an Extreme!
Another major step forward by the Taiko team! Congrats again!! We Audiophiles will have to find something else to fret about now.

Edward, you should just work permanently in the shower!
 

shaned

Member
Nov 7, 2019
65
25
23
48
I did replace most of my Redbook albums including my CD-rips with Qobuz favourites. My library has shrunk to below 4TB now, the majority being DXD and DSD recordings purchased online, 2XHD, highdeftapetransfers. nativedsd etc. These typically occupy around 4-6GB diskspace each. You do still need to check master qualities. If I purchase an album from Qobuz and download it, I cannot detect any differences beyond imaginary between those and their online versions with TAS. Roon starts very fast as a direct result of that, it takes around 6-8 seconds.
Is there a big difference in SQ between the Qobuz Hi Res Masters and their normal 16/44 versions ? whether its through downloading or streaming ?
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2015
610
946
313
Monaco
Is there a big difference in SQ between the Qobuz Hi Res Masters and their normal 16/44 versions ? whether its through downloading or streaming ?
We find the SQ Delta between Redbook has gotten bigger, but which is preferred is a matter of individual listener preference

A majority prefer hi res over Redbook

Every listener has his or her sonic taste and preference. It is not automatically Hi Res
 
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