Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

With respect to the Taiko Extreme how do you connect it to your DAC

  • USB

    Votes: 80 67.2%
  • Ethernet

    Votes: 21 17.6%
  • Both USB and Ethernet

    Votes: 12 10.1%
  • AES/EBU

    Votes: 12 10.1%
  • Dual AES/EBU

    Votes: 3 2.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 7 5.9%

  • Total voters
    119

CDub

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2018
20
6
68
@CDub the card in the Extreme is just a regulare network card with a SFP port it has nothing to do with ISL that MSB uses. The ISL solution is something that just works between MSB products so you need both the ISL card in the DAC and the box that converts USB to ISL.
Got ya... thanks for the clarification.
 

ray-dude

Active Member
Dec 8, 2019
91
249
40
51
Could Reference DAC really handle those Vox 4D transducers easily, without voiding the warranty or something?

1W would be enough to drive (with a reasonable output impedance) but 2W is better. I've driven my speakers with a Hugo2 (1W output) which was a bit of a headrest to hear that kind of audio coming from a small battery driven device.

Post pandemic, I would love to hear this beast (esp. being fed by an Extreme) but I'm nervous about what it may be giving up by being limited to 8fs.

Even with DAVE, the difference in spatial coherence between 8fs and 16fs is massive, although part of that is DAVE trying to internally upsample to 16fs with a limited amount of compute. I have been eyeing the new generation of 32fs capable DACs, and hoping they become the norm for this next generation of TOTL DACs.

At some point, the USB interface will be limiting. I've been wondering if the Extreme is at a level where it makes sense to move to a synchronous transport to the DAC (bonus points if optical), or even a DAC card (for PCIe access). If/when Emile and team get around to a Taiko DAC, i'll put in a feature suggestion (or three ;)
 
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seeteeyou

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2015
38
28
223
At some point, the USB interface will be limiting. I've been wondering if the Extreme is at a level where it makes sense to move to a synchronous transport to the DAC (bonus points if optical), or even a DAC card (for PCIe access).

Indeed, IMHO we could certainly do better without "resorting" to USB but unfortunately getting I2S audio (especially 16fs / 32fs) outta PCIe slots might be somewhat challenging for x86-based hardware these days.

I hope this picture is actually telling the truth, otherwise I'd like to apologize

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...e-nos-dac-using-tda1541a-778.html#post6495019




The Wadax Akasa Reference Optical System Connection would like this and it's such a stark contrast when compared to the Pro ISL cable from MSB, could it be possibly thicker than an average PC?

 

Esotar

VIP/Donor
Mar 28, 2016
405
337
285
South Korea
www.digituslabs.kr
Historical digital source upgrade time will come~!!!!

After 28 hours, I'll use TAS beta version.

We must appreciate to Two Legendary Engineers and their team.

This fantastic playback software will be result of huge development fee.

But two heroes give us TAS for free.

We must remember this fact.

Except Taiko Audio, no one can do this service in the world.

I'm very proud of two legends.

KakaoTalk_20210125_102805649.jpg
 
Last edited:

matthias

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2019
550
201
53
Germany
...or even a DAC card (for PCIe access). If/when Emile and team get around to a Taiko DAC, i'll put in a feature suggestion (or three ;)

+1000 :)

Matt
 
Last edited:

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,884
3,140
435
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Indeed, IMHO we could certainly do better without "resorting" to USB but unfortunately getting I2S audio (especially 16fs / 32fs) outta PCIe slots might be somewhat challenging for x86-based hardware these days.

Without overly resorting into technical details, so simplified: a benefit of transporting I2S over a distance over SPDIF or AES/EBU would be you are transporting the clock signal separately so you don't have to recover it from a combined data stream. But do we want to transport a clock signal over a distance if the goal is to achieve the lowest possible phase noise levels/jitter in the first place? By now it's commonly accepted that for optimal performance you'd end up using a FIFO buffer which temporarily stores data in a piece of memory while generating a new clock signal at the receiver end to go with it. Going from that you could opt transporting data by other means if you are going to create a new clock signal at the receiver end anyway and just generate a completely new signal. Effectively you are then moving your I2S data stream generation from the source (server) to the destination (DAC), which does not seem like that bad a choice. Subsequently you could argue that generating I2S with the lowest possible overhead from a high bandwidth source does at the very least reduce some difficulties associated with transporting data over a distance. USB is not a bad call there, most definitely lower overhead then Ethernet, but sure there could be even better ways, perhaps the ultimate answer lies in a custom transportation method which could be anything when using a FPGA on both sides. But then you would need industry adaptation to avoid being vendor locked to the same brand Transport and DAC.
 

nenon

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2020
78
301
60
40
perhaps the ultimate answer lies in a custom transportation method which could be anything when using a FPGA on both sides. But then you would need industry adaptation to avoid being vendor locked to the same brand Transport and DAC.
How about TAAT?
RTAAT - Roon Taiko Advanced Audio Transport
 

oldmustang

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2012
340
560
435
There might be some people who like such a solution and the simplicity which comes with it. :)

Matt
True, but adding interfaces costs money that needs to be recovered by the manufacturer. Even with some industry backing from heavy-weights like Apple and Teac/Esoteric, firewire didn't make it in the marketplace for computing or audio. AFAIK, there are some pro audio devices still utilizing firewire but that interface flamed out pretty quickly.

Steve Z
 

matthias

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2019
550
201
53
Germany
True, but adding interfaces costs money that needs to be recovered by the manufacturer. Even with some industry backing from heavy-weights like Apple and Teac/Esoteric, firewire didn't make it in the marketplace for computing or audio. AFAIK, there are some pro audio devices still utilizing firewire but that interface flamed out pretty quickly.

Steve Z

Steve,

I apologise for not being clear enough. I had not an new interface in mind. I thought the same as @ray-dude in his post #5662, something like a proprietary Taiko DAC card to put in the Extreme to have this UHQ server with direct analog outputs.
That is what I meant with simplicity.

Matt
 
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oldmustang

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2012
340
560
435
Steve,

I apologise for not being clear enough. I had not an new interface in mind. I thought the same as @ray-dude in his post #5662, something like a proprietary Taiko DAC card to put in the Extreme to have this UHQ server with direct analog outputs.
That is what I meant with simplicity.

Matt

No apologies necessary, Matt. Your idea has a lot of merit now that I understand.

Steve Z
 
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shaned

Member
Nov 7, 2019
65
25
23
48
There might be some people who like such a solution and the simplicity which comes with it. :)

Matt
@matthias after having the Vitus SCD and SIA in my previous setup I would have no problem having a streamer and Dac from the same company in fact like you say it might be simple and an easy solution but if the quality is there why look elsewhere if it’s that good.
 
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Levitator

New Member
Jul 1, 2020
17
14
3
50
Last night Edward spent some time enabling the new TAS experience for my system after booking in my time slot as one of the beta users. Shortly after that Emile also reached out to me and offered to also update the USB driver which I immediately took him up on...

I know a lot has already been said but geezuz! I was not expecting the level of improvement that I heard - as you guys know, sometimes you just feel it really can’t get much better and then when it is suggested that quite simply software and drivers can make a (significant) difference, well you can’t help but wonder if it’s true, until of course you experience it.

Emile and his team have done an amazing job in doing what they have done and to support Taiko users the way they have in a most professional, innovative and generous way must again be commended!

Thank you Emile, Edward and all the guys behind the scenes that have worked so hard to bring the music a few steps closer. With your unique capabilities I think we are all truly excited by what the future holds with Taiko. If you are still on the fence about investing in a Taiko, do yourself a favour and make this your next audio investment - you will not be disappointed...

You guys have set the bar to a new level - well done! Now, back to the music!!
 

Johnny Moondog

Well-Known Member
Oct 30, 2014
32
13
215

Johnny Moondog

Well-Known Member
Oct 30, 2014
32
13
215
If/when Emile and team get around to a Taiko DAC, i'll put in a feature suggestion (or three ;)
And I‘ll “second” whatever suggestions you nominate!
 
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heebrog

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2018
101
39
95
Perth, WA
I know a lot has already been said but geezuz! I was not expecting the level of improvement that I heard - as you guys know, sometimes you just feel it really can’t get much better and then when it is suggested that quite simply software and drivers can make a (significant) difference, well you can’t help but wonder if it’s true, until of course you experience it.
Excited to get TAS loaded on my machine tomorrow!
What DAC are you using? HQP or ExtremeDirect?
 

seeteeyou

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2015
38
28
223
USB is not a bad call there, most definitely lower overhead then Ethernet

I was trying to dig a bit deeper, just wondering if you guys were already tweaking the firmware for ASM3142 yet?

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-141#post-628895
The stock USB port on the Extreme is probably the best sounding stock USB port I have heard. According to Emile, this port is based off of the ASM3142 chipset that he really likes.

[Discussion] Firmware for Asmedia USB 3.0/3.1 Controllers
https://www.win-raid.com/t375f13-Discussion-Firmware-for-Asmedia-USB-Controllers.html

Firmware Flasher
https://www.mediafire.com/file/6sqxu8au6v93g8d/FW131025.zip/file

Asus USB 3.0 FW Update Tool v1.0
http://files.homepagemodules.de/b602300/f13t375p77321n2_YcZPIprW.zip

ASMedia xHC RE
https://github.com/cyrozap/asmedia-xhc-re

ASMTool
https://github.com/smx-smx/ASMTool
Firmware dumper and various utilities for PCI based ASMedia USB Controllers

It looks like all ICs in the ASM1x4x, ASM2x4x and ASM3x4x family use the same interface and share the same registers

Direct links to firmware
 
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Esotar

VIP/Donor
Mar 28, 2016
405
337
285
South Korea
www.digituslabs.kr
KakaoTalk_20210125_213524628.jpg


Finally, I took away ROON~!!!!!

I tested TAS for 15 hours.

When ROON was deleted and TAS was installed, SGM Extreme was different product perfectly.

I used Accuton units speakers and now my speakers are Divin Noblesse and Divin Marquis.

Goebel Divin series are very perfect speakers, but each units response is slower than Accuton. (But Texture is....)

TAS in SGM Extreme made Divin series units be much faster.

= By Tas in SGM Extreme, Divin series became perfect speakers.

Very very amazing.

Density, Texture, Resolution, 3D stage, and etc.

All was increased sharply.

Because too many things were increased, I can't explain properly about TAS.

JUST FANTASTIC~!
 

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