Ssssh, is your tube preamp really that quiet?

[microstrip]

My Ref 3 preamp is very quiet.

Although they use a very simple circuit the Reference line of Audio Research preamplifiers are very quiet, particularly if used in balanced mode that rejects the common mode noise due to the power supply - see the graph I attached in post #34.

 

[dan31]

I thought my Nagra PL-L was very quiet for a tube preamp. I did use NOs and Nagra tested tubes. The Nagra supplied tubes were very quiet.

 

[DaveyF]

IMO the tubes are more linear, and despite having greater noise, due to their linearity can also do the least damage to the incoming signal from the cartridge.




DaveyF, Noise plays a role in 'how black the background is' (although distortion can have a lot to do with that as well) and it can obscure low level detail. That is why its best to keep it at a minimum. But noise is not the final determining factor in the preamp's ability to make a musical presentation. Put another way, if one were to base a purchase based on noise alone, its unlikely that the result would be the most musical available. This is because linearity plays an important role too- IMO one that is greater than the noise floor. So what we are really looking for is both at the same time. Especially in a phono section, that is one of the areas that designers are always trying to push.

Ralph, I completely agree with you that although tubes can be more noisy than ss, they do portray ( at least to me) a more realistic musical presentation....particularly IMO in the preamp section. I do think that "ideally" IF one can acquire or build a preamp (line or phono) with as little tube noise as possible, then the likelihood of a greater musical reproduction is fairly high. Like you say. it's a balancing act, but IF all else is equal, the piece with less noise is going to be preferable...at least to me.

 

[Orb]

I thought my Nagra PL-L was very quiet for a tube preamp. I did use NOs and Nagra tested tubes. The Nagra supplied tubes were very quiet.

Agreed,
Nagra are very popular with owners of the higher market 96db sensitive Tannoy range speakers and other horn speakers.
Cheers
Orb

 

[mep]

To me, the bummer with the Nagra preamps is the fact that the input connections are on the side of the preamp instead of the rear.

 

[DaveyF]

To me, the bummer with the Nagra preamps is the fact that the input connections are on the side of the preamp instead of the rear.

Agreed, it does seem strange that they do that. Some of the CAT gear does that as well, NOT contributing to the aesthetics of the gear at all, IMO.

 

[Orb]

To me, the bummer with the Nagra preamps is the fact that the input connections are on the side of the preamp instead of the rear.

I think this changed with the very latest models mep, but yeah agree it was a pain for the deemed home consumer models they did in the past.
Cheers
Orb

 

[egidius]

My berning zotl pre. Fabulous.

 

[audiophil7777]

Been following the thread and had me thinking. So I did some testing for curiosity. First of all, my room is dedicated, enclosed and treated with ASC wall damping in the sheetrock/studs and has traps throughout the room. I used the Feikert iPad software and Analogue Productions test LP to test the room and equipment.

First of all, ambient noise in the room with everything quiet was 34 dB.

The I turned on the system with a Rowland Synergy Iii preamp and set a volume at 30 (normal listening level and measured with test tones). With nothing playing the room dB was 37 dB.

Then I tested with Rowland Synergy Iii with the BPS-1 battery power supply with battery mode. The room dB was 35 dB.

I then placed an ARC Ref 5 se preamp in the system and set the volume at 32 (matched via test tones with the Synergy Iii). With nothing playing the room dB was 38 dB.

At the listening position with all three trials I couldn't hear any noise from the loudspeakers but when placing my ear an inch or so from the mid and tweeter, the ARC was definitely slightly noisier than the Rowland. But again, at the listening position, I couldn't tell any difference. And via measurements, both preamps are pretty darn quiet compared to room ambient noise with the system turned off (only 3-5 dB difference).

 

[mep]

So which preamp sounds better, the ARC or the Rowland?

 

[audiophil7777]

So which preamp sounds better, the ARC or the Rowland?

Both are great preamps. I particularly like the 'old' Rowland sound compared so his newer preamps. That being said, here is how I describe the comparison of the Rowland Synergy Iii and the ARC Ref 5 se:

Synergy IIi - bass speed and tightness, air around images, soundstage depth

Ref 5 se - detail, ambience retrieval, sound stage width, coherence of soundstage, musicality, transparency

Overall, I preferred the ARC Ref 5 se in my system. So much so, I went all ARC with a Ref Phono 2se and Ref 250's too.