Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

DasguteOhr

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Sep 26, 2013
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Yes and the combination with Overture is still retaining Kondo character faithfully. The combo with ATM-2211 although very very nice / nicer than with Overture, I think sounded a bit tubey And doesn’t sound like Kondo anymore.
Yes, there are synergies that go better together.
Control always pays off in the bass. there are fewer room acoustics problems (reverberation effects). whether you like it better is another question.;)
 

Uwiik

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The Ongaku by itself is actually the best in term of SQ if I don’t play it too loud, something like 80-85 db on average, but if I push it harder to 90-100 db average I can sense the amp is straining and started to get harsh a bit, nothing annoying but we all know it’s that last 1% that make the difference.
 

Uwiik

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Yes, there are synergies that go better together.
Control always pays off in the bass. there are fewer room acoustics problems (reverberation effects). whether you like it better is another question.;)
Yes exactly
 

Uwiik

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I spent the night fantasizing about bi amping with Kondo Kagura, then I realized that I am not a rich politician… LOL…
 

Solypsa

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this is a dream system no matter how it ends...but I have to wonder...if the ultimate is the single ongaku...and as an aside the budget for cables is so generous...could maybe a second set of woofer towers be employed to increase output? I am actually not joking...
 

Uwiik

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this is a dream system no matter how it ends...but I have to wonder...if the ultimate is the single ongaku...and as an aside the budget for cables is so generous...could maybe a second set of woofer towers be employed to increase output? I am actually not joking...
yes it is, my wife usually complains when she saw a new gear in our house, not this time. The sound was too sublime for her to complain, she actually complimented it and didn’t even ask about price.

I don’t really get what you are trying to convey about woofer tower, could you please enlighten me?

I am at crossroad right now, I think I definitely need to bi amp if I want the ultimate sound. Bi amping with Overture certainly preserves the Kondo sound with unreal bass slam and authority, I initially wanted to just go with Overture for bi amp, but after I rolled the tubes on the ATM-2211 with GE 211, Telefunken Ribbed 12AX7 and GE 12BH7 everything becomes crazy different. I still get the Kondo sound just much better this time and so realistic, bass still doesn’t slam as powerful as all Kondo but now have more control and I think it’s more important than mere slam, no comparison. So now I think it’s either ATM-2211 for second amp or go all out and get Kagura for second amp, I don’t think I want to go back to Overture as second amp.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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I spent the night fantasizing about bi amping with Kondo Kagura, then I realized that I am not a rich politician… LOL…
my understanding is that Ongaku dream, is better than Kagura dream. a lot more Kondo....if that is your aim. maybe tube and speaker dependent.

no personal experience, just heard/read that multiple times.
 
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Maril555

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Jun 27, 2014
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Two Ongakus???
 
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Uwiik

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my understanding is that Ongaku dream, is better than Kagura dream. a lot more Kondo....if that is your aim. maybe tube and speaker dependent.

no personal experience, just heard/read that multiple times.
That’s why if I actually go that way I will use the Kagura to drive the bass and Ongaku for mid-high. They even said Masaki San himself also likes Ongaku more.
 

morricab

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I am strongly considering this but I have to get a loaner Ongaku first to see if Ongaku can drive the woofers.
If the Air Tight can then probably the Ongaku is able to do so, no?

You can reverse the amps...put the Air Tights on the mid-high and the Ongaku on the bass and see if it works. Then you answer two questions: 1) Do Air Tights sound good on the mid-high and 2) Can Ongaku drive the bass.
 

Uwiik

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If the Air Tight can then probably the Ongaku is able to do so, no?

You can reverse the amps...put the Air Tights on the mid-high and the Ongaku on the bass and see if it works. Then you answer two questions: 1) Do Air Tights sound good on the mid-high and 2) Can Ongaku drive the bass.
I feel so dumb for you beating me to this idea…... must the the painkillers I am taking right now..
 

morricab

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I feel so dumb for you beating me to this idea…... must the the painkillers I am taking right now..
No worries...we just want to know how the swap comes out! :D
 

mtemur

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please do not mix different amps in bi-amping configuration. if you can afford use two pairs of kagura and g-1000. BTW I personally prefer a single pair over a bi-amp pair cause I think bi-amping causes many problems, solving a little. on the other hand using different amps is unacceptable and
best thing to do is getting a good speaker for your single amp instead of bi-amp IMHO.
 
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Uwiik

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please do not mix different amps in bi-amping configuration. if you can afford use two pairs of kagura and g-1000. BTW I personally prefer a single pair over a bi-amp pair cause I think bi-amping causes many problems, solving a little. on the other hand using different amps is unacceptable and
best thing to do is getting a good speaker for your single amp instead of bi-amp IMHO.
Both amp has volume control and I don’t think I have problem blending the two, I tried hard to find fault and putting everything under magnifying glass but I just couldn’t, it took many back and forth adjusting but it’s doable. I have heard failed bi amp before and I agree there is no cure but it’s not the case with mine.
 

gian60

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Bi amp is always better but amp hs to be same.
I biamped my speaker Montagna,98 db,with M7 ksl,GE1 and 2 Souga.
2 Souga,one for bass and one for midhigh was much better,more transparent mig high and evry parameter better

I had Ongaku and Gakuon,with 2 211 amd no comparison was much better.For me is better also than Kagura that i listened in the system of my friend and in some show
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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Bi amp is always better but amp hs to be same.
I biamped my speaker Montagna,98 db,with M7 ksl,GE1 and 2 Souga.
2 Souga,one for bass and one for midhigh was much better,more transparent mig high and evry parameter better

I had Ongaku and Gakuon,with 2 211 amd no comparison was much better.For me is better also than Kagura that i listened in the system of my friend and in some show
I think if it is the same class of amp then you can still blend effectively. The problem really comes when you try to blend different technologies (even PP class A triode is not ideal to blend with SET, for example). This is why I have never been a fan really of "half-active" speakers where the woofer is powered by a SS or Class D amp and the mid-high with tubes. So, I think an Ongaku and Gakuon/Kagura would work quite well. I also think the ATM amp, which is even using the same output tube as Ongaku, would also work pretty well...at least Uwiik seems to think so.
 

Uwiik

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I think if it is the same class of amp then you can still blend effectively. The problem really comes when you try to blend different technologies (even PP class A triode is not ideal to blend with SET, for example). This is why I have never been a fan really of "half-active" speakers where the woofer is powered by a SS or Class D amp and the mid-high with tubes. So, I think an Ongaku and Gakuon/Kagura would work quite well. I also think the ATM amp, which is even using the same output tube as Ongaku, would also work pretty well...at least Uwiik seems to think so.
It‘s working well
 
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Uwiik

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Today was a real revelation. I realized how agnostic my current setup is. I had a friend visiting and he liked electronic and trance, we blasted the system with lots of Alan Walker, Tiesto, etc and oh my God it was like inside a club, very solid sound pressure with totally non fatiguing sound, off course bass was perfect, I swear I felt taking some “E” and go back to my wild college days. After 4 hours of loud electronic music my friend finally left and I immediately switched to “The Best of Lang Lang” and I immediately heard some of the most accurate piano reproduction I have ever heard in a hifi, it was sureal and spooky, I could feel the energy of each hit…. I like my system and I find it hard to improve further, this is it for me (for now)….. But….. Kagura also haunts my mind…..I really want to order the Kagura instead of ATM-2211 to biamp with Ongaku but I am afraid I will be dissapointed because again, with ATM-2211 I find it hard to find fault in my system right now, I tried hard to find fault but I couldn’t….. advise advise…
 
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