Sonore Signature Rendu SE (optical vs non-optical)

slai

Member
Dec 13, 2020
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Hi everyone,

First of all, do allow me to wish everyone here a Happy 2021. May everyone has plenty of good music and endless joy in exploring audio equipment and exchange of knowledge.

Recently I have acquired an Uptone etherREGEN and somehow it has insignificant impact to my existing system (I don’t seem to detect any sonic difference). I have received some advice to add a streamer to my system. I have made some research and have narrowed down to a few options, namely, Lumin U1 and Sonore Signature Rendu SE.

As I have read from some comments that Signature Rendu is a better than the U1, I am finding out more about the Signature Rendu SE and I am curious if there will be any sonic difference between the optical version and the ethernet version. There are much discussions and reviews on the optical version but I don’t seem to be finding anything on the non-optical version. The non-optical version will be more straight forward for me to fit into the existing system.

Any advice is much appreciated. Thank you.

symon
 
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Lxgreen

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Jul 27, 2020
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I worked my way up the Sonore streamer tree starting with microrendu then Rendu SE then upgraded to the optical RenduSE. Moving from microrendu to RENDU SE was big jump in SQ. Moving to optical was improvement but not huge in my system. Using Uptone JS-2 as lps for the rendu made another improvement worth considering. I did sell the rendu and replaced with Bricasti M12. I use direct Ethernet streaming instead of the USB with the Rendu. I also use EtherRegen as Switch prior to the Bricasti. The Sonore was excellent and probably almost equal to what I am hearing with the Bricasti.
 
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Afveep

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Hi Symon,
Full disclosure: I am a Sonore and Bricasti dealer. I’ll try to be as factual as possible.
the Sonore Signature RenduSE now gives you the choice of either optical or hard wire Ethernet inputs, so you can use whatever works best for you. Generally, most Users have found that optical sounds better as an input. However, using the quite exceptional EtherRegen requires you to “reverse” it to use optical (i.e. feed from the “A” side) which CAN reduce the isolation capabilities, depending on what else (e.g. NAS, internet) you have connected to the EtherRegen. Otherwise, use the EtherRegen as intended ( feed from the isolated B side) -You can still achieve top performance by utilizing high quality Ethernet cables and minimizing their distance.
 

slai

Member
Dec 13, 2020
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Singapore, Shanghai
The reason I am asking this question is that I have recently chanced upon a used set Sonore Signature Rendu SE (non optical). Wondering if the sound quality difference will be significant. Nevertheless, thank you for sharing, Afveep & Lxgreen.
 

Afveep

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The reason I am asking this question is that I have recently chanced upon a used set Sonore Signature Rendu SE (non optical). Wondering if the sound quality difference will be significant. Nevertheless, thank you for sharing, Afveep & Lxgreen.
whether optical will make a difference in your particular system will depend on your network - it’s noise level and the other devices on it and length of cabling. The fact that you are using the EtherRegen is a good start. If you can keep an Ethernet cable reasonably short from EtherRegen to Rendu ( maybe <5 m ?) and use a high quality cable, you will be good with the non-optical version. Longer distances and noisier environments will favor Optical.
 
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allvinyl

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Apr 10, 2013
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Hi Symon,
Full disclosure: I am a Sonore and Bricasti dealer. I’ll try to be as factual as possible.
the Sonore Signature RenduSE now gives you the choice of either optical or hard wire Ethernet inputs, so you can use whatever works best for you. Generally, most Users have found that optical sounds better as an input. However, using the quite exceptional EtherRegen requires you to “reverse” it to use optical (i.e. feed from the “A” side) which CAN reduce the isolation capabilities, depending on what else (e.g. NAS, internet) you have connected to the EtherRegen. Otherwise, use the EtherRegen as intended ( feed from the isolated B side) -You can still achieve top performance by utilizing high quality Ethernet cables and minimizing their distance.
Isn't the Sigature Rendu SE a third or half the cost of an M1 SE or M12?

Also, if I'm reading correctly, you're saying proper placement of the components allowing for short, high quality ethernet cables puts regular ethernet on performance par with optical.

Would you recommend a M1 with streamer card over the Signature Rendu SE + optical module deluxe + M1? Since I'm not yet streaming I'm still trying to understand all the hw and how it goes together...
 

Lxgreen

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Jul 27, 2020
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Westlake Village, CA, USA
You can also use a Sonore optical module to convert ther Ethernet to optical
 

Afveep

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sn't the Sigature Rendu SE a third or half the cost of an M1 SE or M12?

Also, if I'm reading correctly, you're saying proper placement of the components allowing for short, high quality ethernet cables puts regular ethernet on performance par with optical.

Would you recommend a M1 with streamer card over the Signature Rendu SE + optical module deluxe + M1? Since I'm not yet streaming I'm still trying to understand all the hw and how it goes together...
The current price of a Signature RenduSE Optical is $4,800. The Bricasti M1SE with Network Input retails for $11,000; an M12 (with analog preamp) retails for $16K and M21 (multiple DACs) also for $16,000. So yes, the SigRenduSE is about 45% to 30% of the cost of the Bricasti units. The Bricastis are advanced DACs with a network input (amongst others); the Rendu is a streamer ONLY. With the Rendu, you will still need a high-quality DAC with USB input (e.g the M1SE). With the Bricasti units, you can plug your LAN ethernet cable directly in. Thus, the math is determined by the price of the DAC you add to your system. If you already have a great DAC with USB input, the Sonore is the way to go. If you need a DAC, then a Bricasti with network input might be preferred over the complexity of adding the Rendu + optical module+ linear PS + fiber. The Bricasti LAN input is very good.

<<proper placement of the components allowing for short, high quality ethernet cables puts regular ethernet on performance par with optical.>> The comparison to plain ethernet vs. optical depends on many factors, so it's not possible to have a generic answer. MY experience- if you have a long run to do, optical is generally preferred. i.e. router or switch at other side of house or basement. If it's a short distance, you will likely be happy with high-quality ethernet cables. Whatever the distance, I DO recommend an "audio-grade" switch near your system. This will clean noise up just prior to the DAC (or Rendu).

Optical will indeed block or at least minimize noise from external sources, such as your ISP connection, internal house connections and modem. There is a theoretical justification for converting to optical even for short distances. However, the cost vs. benefit factor enters in here.

So, there's no single answer. With both Sonore & Bricasti, they are all exceptional products. Your individual budget and physical situation with determine the best solution and you can't go "wrong" with these.
Tom
 

allvinyl

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Apr 10, 2013
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The current price of a Signature RenduSE Optical is $4,800. The Bricasti M1SE with Network Input retails for $11,000; an M12 (with analog preamp) retails for $16K and M21 (multiple DACs) also for $16,000.
What is pricing for the M1 series II with optional network player? What are the advantages of the series II?
If you already have a great DAC with USB input, the Sonore is the way to go. If you need a DAC, then a Bricasti with network input might be preferred over the complexity of adding the Rendu + optical module+ linear PS + fiber. The Bricasti LAN input is very good.
I don't have a standalone DAC, only a card with COAX and USB inputs in a Viola Crescendo linestage. I have listened extensively to an M1SE series 1 in a friend's system.
MY experience- if you have a long run to do, optical is generally preferred. i.e. router or switch at other side of house or basement. If it's a short distance, you will likely be happy with high-quality ethernet cables.
I have over 100 feet from my router to my basement listening room. I already have a 4 port switch with SFP slot. I had planned to run fiber from that switch upstairs to the listening room.
Whatever the distance, I DO recommend an "audio-grade" switch near your system. This will clean noise up just prior to the DAC (or Rendu)
What audio grade switch(es) are recommended? The candidates would have to have an SFP slot to accept the fiber run from the switch upstairs.
So, there's no single answer. With both Sonore & Bricasti, they are all exceptional products. Your individual budget and physical situation with determine the best solution and you can't go "wrong" with these.
Tom
Thanks for the help sorting this out.
 

Afveep

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Afveep said:
What is pricing for the M1 series II with optional network player? What are the advantages of the series II?

I don't have a standalone DAC, only a card with COAX and USB inputs in a Viola Crescendo linestage. I have listened extensively to an M1SE series 1 in a friend's system.

I have over 100 feet from my router to my basement listening room. I already have a 4 port switch with SFP slot. I had planned to run fiber from that switch upstairs to the listening room.

What audio grade switch(es) are recommended? The candidates would have to have an SFP slot to accept the fiber run from the switch upstairs.

Thanks for the help sorting this out.
The M1 Series 2 with Network input retails for $13,000.00. The series 2 is very cool- it's an M1 with even larger/better power supplies (hence the larger chassis). The larger power supplies provide more headroom and even lower noise. I listened to it at Axpona and it was exceptional! even cleaner than a regular M1SE. IF I am not mistaken, it may have Bricasti's new color display instead of the red dot matrix. Not 100% sure.

The Viola is a nice piece!

With a 100 ft distance, you are correct that fiber would be the best. Put a Finisar SFP in your existing switch. In the listening room, use either a Sonore Optical Module or an Uptone EtherRegen to convert from fiber to ethernet (short cable); then, into either a new Bricasti DAC with Network input or a Sonore Signature Rendu with USB out to your Viola.

I would think there would be some audio-grade switches with SFP, but I don't know any offhand. You can use a Sonore Optical module ahead of a great switch. I am liking the new Silent Angel switches.

If you don't have a local. Bricasti or Sonore dealer, I'm happy to provide help. Just PM me.
Good luck!
Tom
 

matthias

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The series 2 is very cool- it's an M1 with even larger/better power supplies (hence the larger chassis). The larger power supplies provide more headroom and even lower noise. I listened to it at Axpona and it was exceptional! even cleaner than a regular M1SE.
Thanks for sharing.
AFAIK, the series 2 use the power supply of the M12. Is this correct?

Matt
 

Afveep

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tyree91

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I have gone from a homemade Windows i7 server in a Streacom fanless case with a SOtM USB card to my Aesthetix Romulus tube DAC to the following:
A TP-Link AX5400 Router> Ubiquity Switch with SFP Cage (Finisar SFP Transceiver all in utility room)> Optical Ethernet to the Sound Room. The Optical cable connects to a Sonore Optical Module Deluxe (Finisar SFP Transceiver)>Fidelizer Audio Grade Switch. The switch has a 1. Small Green Computer Sonictransporter i7 (Gen 3) with a Core Audio (360,000 micro-Fared) LPS. 2. Uptone Audio EtherRegen (all connected with Audioquest Diamond Ethernet.)
We reversed the EtherRegen such that the copper ethernet goes in the B side, and fiber ethernet (Finisar SFP Transceiver) comes out the A side (switch and EtherRegen powered by an HD Plex 300W LPS.) Fiber ethernet>Sonore Signature Rendu Optical SE Tier II>Aesthetix Romulus Eclipse tube DAC.
These changes to optical network rendering instead of USB from the server have been revelatory. In particular Small Green Computer server with the Sonicorbiter firmware and huge LPS, and the Sonore Signature Rendu have given me near SOTA sound at a much lower cost than some of the Mega buck options mentioned here. Highly recommended.

 
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Brucemck2

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May 10, 2010
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The Bricasti M3 with the network card is a terrific, more cost effective, DAC and network endpoint. It can also be configured with a very nice headphone amplifier. I did not hear much difference using various servers (I tried several) to the M3 versus just going Ethernet directly into the M3 with Roon Core running on a high end i9 desktop. I did get minor gains from various upstream network isolators/switches (e.g. EtherRegen).

I’ve not heard the M1 and can’t make any comparisons. I believe but am not certain the M1 and M3 use the same network card, although the M1 would be feeding it with a better power supply and clock.
 

mitch2+

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Feb 16, 2022
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New to this thread and new to Sonore/Small Green Computer but recently adding their Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical as a Roon endpoint/streamer has made a surprisingly positive improvement on the sound I am hearing. To me, the sound is more musical, with specific improvements in tonal density, smoothness/roundness, and dimensionality. The improvements are compared to what I was hearing using either USB directly out of my Mojo Audio DejaVu server or using Metrum's Ambre as a stand-alone endpoint/streamer (a Raspberry Pi with LPS and femto clocks). I was already using fiber in my system so the improvements must be a result of the digital design and not solely the optical/fiber connection.

I have recently been comparing four DACs in my system (Mojo EVO Pro, SMc DAC-2, Tambaqui, and BM DAC3 HGC) and the Sig Rendu SE improved the sound from all of them. The SMc DAC-2 only accepts a coax input so using Sonore's ultraDigital converter after the Sig Rendu SE brought similar sonic improvements to what I hear going USB direct into the other three DACs. Well-done Sonore and SGC.
 

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