Sme 3012 R

I know this old arm is good but I don’t know why David,Rockitman,Tang,Ron,Mike
Use or will use having top tonearm like Sat,EliteAxiom,Black Beauty,Durand

Why 3012 is so special?
I never had and I don’t understand
Only to know for my curiosity
Regards
Gian

 

Just like Jim Smith and others share what when and how they choose. No need to clutch the pearls.

Peter,

Comparing what Jim Smith releases and what you show us is a real joke ...
Just look at his site and the great Quarter Note newsletter archives.

IMO Jim is just the opposite of DDK in this aspect. YMMV.

 

You miss the point completely and maybe that’s only because you want to argue. No joke.

Curious that some people hate or fear disputing or discussing interesting points in high-end and call it "arguing". Particularly if it questions their dogmatic behaviors or gurus.

Jim Smith shares a lot of information publicly. But some of it was only available to paying subscribers.

The Quarter Notes are now freely available in the site. It seems you have not read them, I referred to them also hopping more people become curious about them. Surely the book and DVDs at a ridiculous low price is more complete. And yes, I know that all I write becomes copyright of WBF, no problem with it, probably you feel differently.

David Karmeli shares very little information publicly. Some of it is available to his customers and friends.

What I wrote is that David Karmeli, just like Jim Smith and the rest of us here on WBF, decide for ourselves what we want to share, when we want to share it, and with whom we want to share it.

Yes, there is joke that a giraffe is similar to a crocodile because both have four legs ...

For some reason, you seem to want everyone to share everything they know with you on an open public forum. It doesn’t work that way. Sharing information is voluntary.

No, Peter. My point is simply that if people make claims they must be able to support them, not making them and then hiding behind secrecy. As easy as that. As you I get a lot of private information - if I do not want or are not supposed to share it, I simply do not refer to it.

 

Curious that some people hate or fear disputing or discussing interesting points in high-end and call it "arguing". Particularly if it questions their dogmatic behaviors or gurus.

+1

 

This turning into a sad thread now…..

 

This turning into a sad thread now…..

The Karmeli Cult Ideology Effect …

 

This turning into a sad thread now…..

Agreed. I deleted my posts perhaps the thread get back to discussing the wonderful tone arm.

 

is the 3009R in the same league?

 

Everyone raves about the original tonearm cable for the 3012R. Is it the blue or black coloured one?

 

Everyone raves about the original tonearm cable for the 3012R. Is it the blue or black coloured one?

I have three (3) NOS 3012R arms. They all have the exact same black, original tone arm cable. The connectors also are the same, but those changed overtime.

 

is the 3009R in the same league?

I have not heard the 3009R. I did do extensive comparisons on the same turntable between the SME V and V-12. They sound quite different. The 9 inch arm was a bit more lively while the 12 inch arm was more refined and nuanced, and it seemed to have a little bit less distortion. Bass quality was better. I preferred the longer arm.

My dealer prefers the 3012R to the 3009R.

 

I have three (3) NOS 3012R arms. They all have the exact same black, original tone arm cable. The connectors also are the same, but those changed overtime.

Got a photo Peter? I have mine from but mine are from the 3012RG so not sure if they are the same or not. Thanks.

 

Got a photo Peter? I have mine from but mine are from the 3012RG so not sure if they are the same or not. Thanks.

Howie, you can zoom in on this to see the connectors. Let me know if you want another photo unwrapped on the table. I can take one later tonight.

 

Over time SME had different phono cables for their arms, IME they're all excellent and one wouldn't go wrong with any of them.

david

IMO the only way to differentiate them is measuring them - mine has 67 pF. But my 3012R tonearm was not bought as NOS.

 

Perhaps Instead of being swayed by the Flat Earth naysayers who believe that a 60+ year old component will still be matching ,
A. It’s performance specifications as per when new and ,
B. Perform sonically better than a signal chain composed of *More* internal connection points than *Less* and,
C. Believe that the material and manufacturing processes of wire signal carriers has not progressed beyond what was an available to SME back in the last century .

One might have a conversation with a specialist in the field and make one’s own mind up ! viz:

SME3012 Version 1 complete restoration by AnalogMagik

The SME 3012 V1 requires a complete restoration to its bearing assembly in order to achieve peak performance. The SME 3012 V1 can be fitted with a direct tonearm wire connection from Headshell Clip to RCA output using the AnalogMagik Reference Silver Tonearm wire without any breaks in between.

www.analogmagik.com

 

I know this old arm is good but I don’t know why David,Rockitman,Tang,Ron,Mike
Use or will use having top tonearm like Sat,EliteAxiom,Black Beauty,Durand

Why 3012 is so special?
I never had and I don’t understand
Only to know for my curiosity
Regards
Gian

I think the answer to the question asked in the original post is answered very clearly in this post:

Hi Gian,

IME most elusive elements of reproduction are bass, sense of space and portrayal of scale to get right if you want "natural" and this is where the 3012-r is unmatched by any other tonearm I've owned and heard. Everything is just right with this arm.

Ergonomically it's sensible and flexible I can set one up with just a protractor in under an hour from start to finish. The bayonet mount gives you the most possibilities and until Steve's visit it was readily available and inexpensive, prices have doubled since !

david

I’ve seen reports of people modifying the early versions of this tone arm but never direct comparisons after the modifications with the later R version. Have any members here on WBF done this direct comparison?

I have not met anyone or read reports of people preferring a modified 3012R version to an original. I’m sure some preferred changing the sound. And of course, repairs if necessary should be done.

 

I think the answer to the question asked in the original post is answered very clearly in this post:

IME most elusive elements of reproduction are bass, sense of space and portrayal of scale to get right if you want "natural" and this is where the 3012-r is unmatched by any other tonearm I've owned and heard. Everything is just right with this arm.

Absolutley Not In the slightest ! … However your bias is so ingrained that you appear rather incapable of even conceiving that the original stock SME 3012R tonearm might be improved upon , because you have been entirely indoctrinated into that mind set , by a man who had more than a few available for sale at one point , it would seem ?

In regard to your second ‘Belief’ you have not heard an SME 3012 R with an aftermarket high tolerance knife edge bearing manufactured from either a Bronze Alloy or a Steel Alloy … The stock SME factory 3012 R series I nylon knife edge bearing can sound somewhat defuse , muddy and inaccurate by comparison with the very last and late SME production series II tonerms where SME moved to a steel knife edge bearing … Now why do you think that SME might have done that Peter ?

And most certainly in comparison with the aftermarket Bronze /Steel bearings that have came onto the upgrade market in recent times.

But Hey … Stick with your Guru’s teachings that the original Nylon KE bearing , Arthritic factory internal cable and nine separate connections points added to the signal path remain the way to go !

 

(...) I’ve seen reports of people modifying the early versions of this tone arm but never direct comparisons after the modifications with the later R version. Have any members here on WBF done this direct comparison?

I have not met anyone or read reports of people preferring a modified 3012R version to an original. I’m sure some preferred changing the sound. And of course, repairs if necessary should be done.

Why spending time modifying SME3012R's when we have many better arms? Remember that "better" in this hobby simply means "that we prefer" ...

Considering price we can easily get an excellent condition SME 3012-R around 1500-2000 USD and spares are easily available. A very good value for money, although prices for sealed NOS are really speculative - as usual people who want NOS must pay higher prices.

 

Why spending time modifying SME3012R's when we have many better arms? Remember that "better" in this hobby simply means "that we prefer" ...

Well … That Is a whole other topic of conversation

 

Fwiw, I asked SME service about replacing the nylon knife edge bearing. Their reply. Doesn’t rule out an improvement from a different bearing, but this was enough for me.

“Steel bearings can be fitted; however they are extremely expensive and in my opinion not worth it from a sonic point of view ,actually the standard fit is really good – there will always be some that prefer something else but ……………….”