Very interesting...do you believe in the principle of having custom subs designed to go with them to make them all-out flagship speakers?
I have never heard (custom)Subs whit Lyra s so i don t know?
Very interesting...do you believe in the principle of having custom subs designed to go with them to make them all-out flagship speakers?
Well...I think the idea is to go towards 4-tower speakers or speakers (like WAMM and XVX which have the ability but not obligation to go with matching subs) where it is clear that to deliver that level of limitless scale, dynamics and power are at another level.I have never heard (custom)Subs whit Lyra s so i don t know?
Also i must say why some will pay 190K$ for a speaker thats shy on Bass and will make research and extra cost to correct the Bass performance by custom designing Subs.....
I owned almost all Rockport Speakers in the past and i really believe Lyra is over priced.
I think the point here is that virtually all "full range" speakers can benefit from properly designed and integrated separate subs. This is by no means a denigration of the bass capabilities of the Lyra, nor any other full range main speakers for that matter.I have never heard (custom)Subs whit Lyra s so i don t know?
Also i must say why some will pay 190K$ for a speaker thats shy on Bass and will make research and extra cost to correct the Bass performance by custom designing Subs.....
I owned almost all Rockport Speakers in the past and i really believe Lyra is over priced.
WOW...you have heard the Lyras with custom subs! That is fantastic news. A few questions if I may:I think the point here is that virtually all "full range" speakers can benefit from properly designed and integrated separate subs. This is by no means a denigration of the bass capabilities of the Lyra, nor any other full range main speakers for that matter.
I had the opportunity to hear the Lyras with and without active custom subs. The subs improved the bottom octave and much more.
This is by no means a reflection on the bottom 1-2 octave performance of the Lyras, rather it is a testament to the efficacy of well thought out subwoofer design and setup, providing the room can accommodate.
Ralph thanks ! Arnie and yourself are welcome to stop by anytime !John, congratulations on purchasing Lyra! Altair II is a great speaker but I find Rockport's unique cabinet structure used in the Lyra along with the wave guide design of the tweeter in Lyra and other models a real step up in realism and resolution from prior designs. All the best!
I think the point here is that virtually all "full range" speakers can benefit from properly designed and integrated separate subs. This is by no means a denigration of the bass capabilities of the Lyra, nor any other full range main speakers for that matter.
I had the opportunity to hear the Lyras with and without active custom subs. The subs improved the bottom octave and much more.
This is by no means a reflection on the bottom 1-2 octave performance of the Lyras, rather it is a testament to the efficacy of well thought out subwoofer design and setup, providing the room can accommodate.
Points well made. I think the Lyra technically does spec out at 20hz - 30khz at 3db+/- or something. Having lived with Velodyne subs for 25+ years...the single most consistent feature in the system going back to 1995...I also agree that sub integration is difficult to get right. However, for me, I would take the upsides of what 'reasonably good to very good' integration gives me vs what not having it takes away.Although i m sure the Lyra costs a lot to make with the double cabinet design with anti resonance compound in between the 2 shells .
A SOTA company design should be flat in the 20 -50 Hz region also .
Subs are never optimal , i never heard proper integration yet and i have heard wilson with subs magico with subs and Kharma with subs .
Although what the Lyra does it probably does better then the previous model given the same freq range ( a bit cleaner sound and MTM arrangement /different dispersion ).
But i suspect J frech s previous model will be better in the low freq with the 15 incher.( well made large woofers have a lower Fs to work with)
But we will hear that comparison later, look forward to it
Congrats on the purchase as its definitively a well made design (although i never have heard a rockport yet, lol )
The problem is - our ears don't hear a flat frequency response so a speaker delivering, for example a flat response to 20Hz means the lower frequencies will not sound as loud as low - mids, mids, etc. So flat for a speaker does not = flat to what to our listening mechanism.Points well made. I think the Lyra technically does spec out at 20hz - 30khz at 3db+/- or something. Having lived with Velodyne subs for 25+ years...the single most consistent feature in the system going back to 1995...I also agree that sub integration is difficult to get right. However, for me, I would take the upsides of what 'reasonably good to very good' integration gives me vs what not having it takes away.
As far as i know the recording engineer would/ should have played a large part in that already with all his freq ./loudness adjustment knobs/ sound mixing panel and microphone placement/distanceThe problem is - our ears don't hear a flat frequency response so a speaker delivering, for example a flat response to 20Hz means the lower frequencies will not sound as loud as low - mids, mids, etc. So flat for a speaker does not = flat to what to our listening mechanism.
I also agree, I'll take well (but not perfect) integration of subs versus no subs primarily for the reason above - your flat speakers aren't flat perceived by your ears and brain, and as such aren't actually full range unless they're designed or have adjustability (and the capability) to augment the low frequencies to match Fletcher Munson or Sean Olive (pick your curve).
Breaking this down:As far as i know the recording engineer would/ should have played a large part in that already with all his freq . adjustment knobs/ sound panel and microphone placement/distance
He knows what he wants on the recording , CD / digi file / LP what ever to sound good on an average consumer loudspeaker system
I have measured and spent an enormous amount of time listening regarding that issue( my system page )
Go back and look also at the stereophile measurements , Flat speakers correspond with good tonal balance in general .
This sean olive graph is for headphones a s far as i can see , likely a different matter due to a sealed / near placement to the eardrums with a very small membrane compared to normal speakers
Fletcher munson is from 1933 are his tools accurate ??
I can tell you a LS with a 20-25 db designed deviation curve to correct for the Fletcher munson graph will sound horribly inaccurate in real listening , and i m sure you re Vivid speakers arent designed like that .
Ps The biggest problem in my view is that low freq.are not that easy to measure in general , so there is a lot of fraud going on .
Speaker specs that are far to optimistic and dont correspond much with reality .
I dont have a problem , you have as you are the one using subs lol .Low frequency especially extreme low frequency needs to be augmented via subs with the vast majority of speakers.
- WRT your biggest problem
Your two provided graphs are evidence why your speakers and virtually all speakers and rooms need subs.This is a in room measurement graph , you see a lot of large oscillations due to room influence under 300 -400 hz .
It has a peak just at 20 hz .
The other graph is with a slightly different measurement mic position and you can see the difference already , a lot of loudspeaker companies dont like these in room response graphs ( incl bass ) as it looks nasty.
Some rather draw a " average FR response line " themselves instead of the lumps and bumps under 300 Hz
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