shakti

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May 9, 2015
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Cologne, Germany

Fred Crane

Industry Expert
Apr 23, 2020
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What are these different approaches? I lived w BAT tube gear for a while, and owned Audio triodes/4-box tube pre for just over a year, incl upgrade to Elrog 845s. Neither could quite compare to the Nat gear I've now owned happily (despite some teething operational issues) for six years.
How are Nat and Trafomatic comparing and contrasting?
Technically, the coupling of the stages Trafomatic employs is novel. The 250tl is direct coupled to the EML 20B via an interstage transformer of his own design. He's closed mouthed about specifics but as I understand it, he does not consider it transformer coupled, despite the interstage transformer. I hope for a more specific understanding...the direct nature of the sound does tend to support his assertion.
 

Fred Crane

Industry Expert
Apr 23, 2020
271
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135
ElySium/Drina...are they self biasing? What's the ongoing supply like for the tubes used by them?
they are self biasing. the voltages are too high to want any layperson near them, that and they are luxury amps. eimac tubes are collectable. That said, they have more than they need. There's been talk of a pp 304tl amp which would have in excess of 1200 watts class a. There are also some incredibly good sounding transmitter tubes which could warrant another Drina-like massive SET
 
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spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Well, as an absolute Nats devotee, I'm sure I'd love the Trafomatics too. That ElySium design has such visual presence.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Congrats to Jeroen on an amazing system. What TT did you listen to, Ron?

Best.

Air Force 3 Premium:
vdH Grand Cru on SME 3012R
vdH Master Signature on SME 3012R
Shelter Harmony on Ikeda 407

Red Sparrow on VYGER

Mayer phono
Pass top phono
Lampizator phono

Epoch was at Grado Labs for upgrading to Epoch3 status, so Graham Phantom Elite was sad to be left out of the party.
 
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Audiophile Bill

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Mar 23, 2015
4,293
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Air Force 3 Premium:
vdH Grand Cru on SME 3012R
vdH Master Signature on SME 3012R
Shelter Harmony on Ikeda 407

Red Sparrow on VYGER

Mayer phono
Pass top phono
Lampizator phono

Epoch was at Grado Labs for upgrading to Epoch3 status

How was the Lampizator phono, Ron?

Best.
 

jeff1225

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2012
3,007
3,249
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Air Force 3 Premium:
vdH Grand Cru on SME 3012R
vdH Master Signature on SME 3012R
Shelter Harmony on Ikeda 407

Red Sparrow on VYGER

Mayer phono
Pass top phono
Lampizator phono

Epoch was at Grado Labs for upgrading to Epoch3 status, so Graham Phantom Elite was sad to be left out of the party.
Ron,
What did you think of the Shelter Harmony? Also, what does your host think of the cart? I've always been curious about this Japanese cart.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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13,347
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Ron,
What did you think of the Shelter Harmony? Also, what does your host think of the cart? I've always been curious about this Japanese cart.

Shelter Harmony was lower in transparency, resolution and dynamics than either vdH or the Red Sparrow. It sounded like a good, regular, easy-to-listen-to cartridge, not a magic maker like Grand Cru.

Jeroen did not design the system to tame any horn edginess. He designed for maximum transparency and resolution.

As a result, while Grand Cru shows the best transparency (literally like cleaning the window squeaky clean) and the highest resolution ever, I enjoyed listening to Grand Cru only about 25% of the time, on vintage jazz, on some classical and on rolled-off 1970s pop like Fleetwood Mac, Fleetwood Mac.

The Grand Cru shows unparalleled life-like presence and energy and "alive-ness." But more often than not I couldn't relax and my ears tried to "defend themselves" against a little bit of edginess from the Grand Cru.

In my totally idiosyncratic personal situation, there is no way for me to know in advance if the warm-ish Aesthetix Io with the warm-ish Epoch3 will be too much of a good thing. If it is, then the Grand Cru could be great in my system.

If I love the Epoch3 in my system, then the Grand Cru likely would lean to being too edgy for me, and thus would perform for me a secondary role for vintage or rolled-off highs recordings.

I think audioquattr has more experience experimenting with the Epoch3 on a wider variety of tonearms than anyone else in the world.
 
Last edited:

Blue58

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
890
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London, UK
Technically, the coupling of the stages Trafomatic employs is novel. The 250tl is direct coupled to the EML 20B via an interstage transformer of his own design. He's closed mouthed about specifics but as I understand it, he does not consider it transformer coupled, despite the interstage transformer. I hope for a more specific understanding...the direct nature of the sound does tend to support his assertion.
This is direct coupled, 1/2 12ax7 > 45-v4. No interstage, no cap, nada. 91B586BA-3A87-47E8-A292-92A53C61A16B.jpeg
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,605
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E. England
Is that the amp I know quite well, Barry?
 

jeff1225

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2012
3,007
3,249
1,410
51
Shelter Harmony was lower in transparency, resolution and dynamics than either vdH or the Red Sparrow. It sounded like a good, regular, easy-to-listen-to cartridge, not a magic maker like Grand Cru.

Jeroen did not design the system to tame any horn edginess. He designed for maximum transparency and resolution.

As a result, while Grand Cru shows the best transparency (literally like cleaning the window squeaky clean) and the highest resolution ever, I enjoyed listening to Grand Cru only about 25% of the time, on vintage jazz, on some classical and on rolled-off 1970s pop like Fleetwood Mac, Fleetwood Mac.

The Grand Cru shows unparalleled life-like presence and energy and "alive-ness." But more often than not I couldn't relax and my ears tried to "defend themselves" against a little bit of edginess from the Grand Cru.

In my totally idiosyncratic personal situation, there is no way for me to know in advance if the warm-ish Aesthetix Io with the warm-ish Epoch3 will be too much of a good thing. If it is, then the Grand Cru could be great in my system.

If I love the Epoch3 in my system, then the Grand Cru likely would lean to being too edgy for me, and thus would perform for me a secondary role for vintage or rolled-off highs recordings.

I think audioquattr has more experience experimenting with the Epoch3 on a wider variety of tonearms than anyone else in the world.
I didn’t like the Epoch in my system, but I’m not convinced that it is a good match with the 3012R.
 

Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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Shelter Harmony was lower in transparency, resolution and dynamics than either vdH or the Red Sparrow. It sounded like a good, regular, easy-to-listen-to cartridge, not a magic maker like Grand Cru.

Jeroen did not design the system to tame any horn edginess. He designed for maximum transparency and resolution.

As a result, while Grand Cru shows the best transparency (literally like cleaning the window squeaky clean) and the highest resolution ever, I enjoyed listening to Grand Cru only about 25% of the time, on vintage jazz, on some classical and on rolled-off 1970s pop like Fleetwood Mac, Fleetwood Mac.

The Grand Cru shows unparalleled life-like presence and energy and "alive-ness." But more often than not I couldn't relax and my ears tried to "defend themselves" against a little bit of edginess from the Grand Cru.

In my totally idiosyncratic personal situation, there is no way for me to know in advance if the warm-ish Aesthetix Io with the warm-ish Epoch3 will be too much of a good thing. If it is, then the Grand Cru could be great in my system.

If I love the Epoch3 in my system, then the Grand Cru likely would lean to being too edgy for me, and thus would perform for me a secondary role for vintage or rolled-off highs recordings.

I think audioquattr has more experience experimenting with the Epoch3 on a wider variety of tonearms than anyone else in the world.
Your ears seem to lean more toward the Esturo. You could have your LT arm play the Esturo or Red Sparrow and wont feel any edginess. Or if you really like the vdh transparency, contact them for the Jazz version. Other vdh is not for you imo.
 

Fred Crane

Industry Expert
Apr 23, 2020
271
442
135
ElySium/Drina...are they self biasing? What's the ongoing supply like for the tubes used by them?
Just seeing this...both the Elysium and the Drina are self biasing. (we wouldn't want anyone exposing themselves near the voltage required to run transmitter tubes.) Obviously the EML tubes are currently made, while the Eimac/transmitter tubes) are stocked beyond any foreseeable need. These tubes are tremendously sturdy as they were not initially conceived for audio applications. It is unlikely one would need to change the output tubes more than once or twice in a life.
 

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