REL vs JL Audio subs

[XV-1]

Has anyone compared the merits of both subs and come up with any consensus on what is better for 2 channel audio with full range speakers?

 

[XV-1]

I just picked up a used JL E110 and what it does for the price is pretty amazing. Seems to integrate into my system better than a few years back with my then REL Stentor 3.

 

[tima]

Valin likes it.

JL Audio E-Sub e110 Subwoofer - The Absolute Sound

JL Audio E-Sub e110 Subwoofer -

www.theabsolutesound.com

 

[XV-1]

Valin likes it.

JL Audio E-Sub e110 Subwoofer - The Absolute Sound

JL Audio E-Sub e110 Subwoofer -

www.theabsolutesound.com

Hi Tim.

Question more synced towards the higher priced subs from REL and JL Audio.

The sound/voicing from each of these brands might be similar to, when going up models in the Wilson or Magico brands.

 

[tima]

Hi Shane,

I'm not a sub-woofer knowledgeable guy. I just thought it was cool you were adding them to your Maxx 3s so I went to read about them.

Trentemøller !

 

[XV-1]

Hi Shane,

I'm not a sub-woofer knowledgeable guy. I just thought it was cool you were adding them to your Maxx 3s so I went to read about them.

Trentemøller !

Tim, I am also a non sub-woofer knowledgeable guy

I was all set to look at REL and the JL e110 came up used locally, so I picked it up to have some fun. It is against the right wall close to the line of the right speaker to minimise lag, although you can adjust phase/lag on the JL if needed. I have just plugged the sub from the 2nd preamp out on the dag and have it between 40 and 50hz - probably ultimately a bit high but currently just enjoying the additional bass drive on records that have it on the recording.

Have not tried Trentemoller yet - but spinning Faithless and Kanye is insane given the bass extension these recordings have. What this little 10 inch sealed sub is doing is amazing. It's super fast and keeps up with my main speakers easily - it may even be faster. Hence the question re REL and JL in their large subs.

cheers

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The biggest decision factor here is their very different modes of connection/setup and how they relate to your particular system configuration. REL is pretty much commited to high-level (speaker-level) connections is contradistinction to almost everybody else in the business although they have made gestures in the direction of low-level (line-level) input. JL offers both and definitely leans in the direction of line-level which definitely permits the implementation of proper system integration, crossover and equalization. IMHO, those facilities are necessary for successful use of subs and, without them, integration is a crap-shoot.

Also, REL's old canard about high level sub connections being valuable to preserve the system/amp tonality is part of that crap-shoot. Whatever tonality we perceive of a sub's contributions is determined by the harmonics which are still provided by the main speaker. What if the reason you are thinking about adding a sub is really due to an LF weakness in the very amp that is now running mains and sub?

 

[gfroman]

I recently added a 2nd REL212SE subwoofer to my system.
Got them both used at decent pricing compared to buying new.
Added Morrow upgraded high-level cables, EVP footers, and high end power cords.
I love the extra bottom end they add, but they also seem to extend the whole frequency range of my MBL101E's and integrate superbly.
Think I am set for a lonngggg time!

 

[Ron Resnick]

What if the reason you are thinking about adding a sub is really due to an LF weakness in the very amp that is now running mains and sub?

This is theoretically possible.

But which do you think is more likely at 20Hz: naturally declining output from a loudspeaker, or a weird dip in amplifier output?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Also, REL's old canard about high level sub connections being valuable to preserve the system/amp tonality is part of that crap-shoot. Whatever tonality we perceive of a sub's contributions is determined by the harmonics which are still provided by the main speaker.

I would put subwoofers on a ham sandwich, so these topics are greatly interesting to me.

If running a full range signal through a JL Audio electronic crossover is anathema, why isn’t the REL method of high-level speaker connection, and bringing the subwoofer separately up underneath the low frequency output of the full range speakers, a reasonable methodology for you?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

This is theoretically possible.

But which do you think is more likely at 20Hz: naturally declining output from a loudspeaker, or a weird dip in amplifier output?

The former, of course, but it might also be the result of a common but noxious low frequency EDPR in the speaker. But, so what? Why not just avoid the speaker-level connection, if possible?

 

[Dvuc]

REL is different league IMHO … good .. and I always hated subs ..

 

[Kal Rubinson]

If running a full range signal through a JL Audio electronic crossover is anathema, why isn’t the REL method of high-level speaker connection, and bringing the subwoofer separately up underneath the low frequency output of the full range speakers, a reasonable methodology for you?

I am a fan of the CR-1 Active Subwoofer Crossover because its controls are very effective but it's subwoofer output is not being supplied from a post-power-amplifier source. Using it to add bass support under the LF output of main speakers running without any HP is feasible but such control is not common.

Of course, using a HP filter for the main system can have other benefits such as allowing higher output/headroom from the main amp and speaker.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am a fan of the CR-1 Active Subwoofer Crossover because its controls are very effective but it's subwoofer output is not being supplied from a post-power-amplifier source. Using it to add bass support under the LF output of main speakers running without any HP is feasible but such control is not common.

Of course, using a HP filter for the main system can have other benefits such as allowing higher output/headroom from the main amp and speaker.

Thank you.

 

[Dvuc]

I am a fan of the CR-1 Active Subwoofer Crossover because its controls are very effective but it's subwoofer output is not being supplied from a post-power-amplifier source. Using it to add bass support under the LF output of main speakers running without any HP is feasible but such control is not common.

Of course, using a HP filter for the main system can have other benefits such as allowing higher output/headroom from the main amp and speaker.

“”but it's subwoofer output is not being supplied from a post-power-amplifier source”” - well - that is problem! Have you ever heard REL?

 

[ricjor1]

I've owned JL Audio F110s with the CR-1 Active Subwoofer Crossover, and F112s. I've owned REL Carbon Specials, G1 mkii, and now I have dual REL No. 32s. In my opinion they're different as opposed to one being better than the other. I recently watched a Youtube video and the presenter said, "saying one component is better than another is a primitive way of looking at audio". They are different enough that they will appeal to different people.

 

[sujay]

I recently added a 2nd REL212SE subwoofer to my system.
Got them both used at decent pricing compared to buying new.
Added Morrow upgraded high-level cables, EVP footers, and high end power cords.
I love the extra bottom end they add, but they also seem to extend the whole frequency range of my MBL101E's and integrate superbly.
Think I am set for a lonngggg time!

I’m not surprised at all. I have been using a pair of REL G1 with my Rockport Avior since 2015. Despite the real estate they occupy, I just can’t conceive listening without them. Now, admittedly, I haven’t tried the puritanical line level connection with an external crossover splitting the frequencies. Nevertheless, I can say with conviction ( for me) that the RELs made the most profound positive impact to the overall SQ......and as people would know here, the Aviors are not slouches in the bass department.
I can’t explain how the RELs bring bloom and air to the overall presentation by impacting frequencies well above sub bass levels, but the overall scale of presentation seems to just ‘lift up’.
A few years back, I had a friend and an audio sceptic visit me and listen to my system.....We first played without the subs on for an hour. Subsequently, I switched the RELs on without telling him and played the same music that we had played before - his reaction was priceless........ he simply couldn’t fathom the reason behind the sudden ‘uplift’ in performance till I told him that I had in fact switched the subs on!
So yes, the high level connection might well go against conventional wisdom, but I can’t fault what I am hearing!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

“”but it's subwoofer output is not being supplied from a post-power-amplifier source”” - well - that is problem! Have you ever heard REL?

Only at shows but, even there, I have found them not to be to my taste. To be clear, I believe this to be due to how they are integrated (and into what they were integrated) and not to the fundamental quality of the devices themselves. To be even more clear, I'd like to see them set up and measured(!) in a real setup.

So yes, the high level connection might well go against conventional wisdom, but I can’t fault what I am hearing!

And, fwiw, I am skeptical about accepting such individual, non-blind and non-statistical judgements, including my own.

 

[bryans]

"saying one component is better than another is a primitive way of looking at audio". They are different enough that they will appeal to different people.

You are spot on here. Bravo

 

[sujay]

Only at shows but, even there, I have found them not to be to my taste. To be clear, I believe this to be due to how they are integrated (and into what they were integrated) and not to the fundamental quality of the devices themselves. To be even more clear, I'd like to see them set up and measured(!) in a real setup.

And, fwiw, I am skeptical about accepting such individual, non-blind and non-statistical judgements, including my own.

Oh absolutely! I thought it was clear that I was speaking for myself....