Reel to Reel Tape Lifespan
- Thread starter rrr
- Start date
It has been a long while so you will get other, better answers, but I'll start the ball rolling with what I remember from 20+ years ago:
1. Degradation starts almost immediately, just like in records, but the pace is slower since there's less physical contact. (Noncontactless heads have been tried but never worked well; no idea if they are still being pursued today). The half-life for good tape used to be around 200 - 500 plays, I think, with 1000 plays often consider EOL (end of life) for highest quality. A lot depends upon upon how well the tape deck is maintained and quality of the tape...
2. Generally longer for 1/2" because the tape is usually thicker and the tracks are both wider and further apart. Because of interaction among signals on the tape, the number of tracks is important. Two tracks on 1/4" tape and four tracks on 1/2" tape have roughly the same flux density and interaction/crosstalk/fading issues, but the 1/2" will generally last longer because the tape is usually thicker and field strength is usually higher on 1/2" systems.
3. Thicker tape lasts longer because you can put more signal down initially and there's more tape to wear before it gets too thin, but I do not recall the math. And, a glance at my shelf shows my old tape guide is missing, hmmm... BASF (and others) used to have a nice guide showing tape performance and lifetime versus various parameters; maybe somebody here has a copy.
Recording speed also matters, of course, and how and where you store the tape. Stuck in a car the tape may only last a year or two before significant sonic degradation; in a controlled storage environment 10 years or more is not uncommon. Much older tapes have been reported, natch, but they usually require some processing to recover all the signal.
All imo - Don
1. Degradation starts almost immediately, just like in records, but the pace is slower since there's less physical contact. (Noncontactless heads have been tried but never worked well; no idea if they are still being pursued today). The half-life for good tape used to be around 200 - 500 plays, I think, with 1000 plays often consider EOL (end of life) for highest quality. A lot depends upon upon how well the tape deck is maintained and quality of the tape...
2. Generally longer for 1/2" because the tape is usually thicker and the tracks are both wider and further apart. Because of interaction among signals on the tape, the number of tracks is important. Two tracks on 1/4" tape and four tracks on 1/2" tape have roughly the same flux density and interaction/crosstalk/fading issues, but the 1/2" will generally last longer because the tape is usually thicker and field strength is usually higher on 1/2" systems.
3. Thicker tape lasts longer because you can put more signal down initially and there's more tape to wear before it gets too thin, but I do not recall the math. And, a glance at my shelf shows my old tape guide is missing, hmmm... BASF (and others) used to have a nice guide showing tape performance and lifetime versus various parameters; maybe somebody here has a copy.
Recording speed also matters, of course, and how and where you store the tape. Stuck in a car the tape may only last a year or two before significant sonic degradation; in a controlled storage environment 10 years or more is not uncommon. Much older tapes have been reported, natch, but they usually require some processing to recover all the signal.
All imo - Don
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rrr,
Let me give a perspective on your first question.
I have a few master dub selections that we put on 5" hubs so I could "audition" them on my Stellavox without having to use the large reel adapter. I've played them dozens of times and can't perceive any sound degradation.
Also have a reel of Scotch 100 tape that someone recorded a bunch of music onto back in 1948. This tape is paper based (not plastic) and was the first tape commercially available in the USA - in 1947. It sounds remarkable today and doesn't "shed".
Charles
Let me give a perspective on your first question.
I have a few master dub selections that we put on 5" hubs so I could "audition" them on my Stellavox without having to use the large reel adapter. I've played them dozens of times and can't perceive any sound degradation.
Also have a reel of Scotch 100 tape that someone recorded a bunch of music onto back in 1948. This tape is paper based (not plastic) and was the first tape commercially available in the USA - in 1947. It sounds remarkable today and doesn't "shed".
Charles
I thought I would resurrect this thread because of something I heard from a friend recently, even though someone as knowledgable as Charles has shared his thoughts. Recently he heard my Studer A80 and some nicely recorded tapes (including some Tape Project tapes), and was astonished with their sonic quality.
So he began a search for a tape machine. He found an ATR-102 and asked the seller several questions--but then lost interest after the seller said, "The real problem with tape is that after five plays, the high frequencies noticeably drop off." My friend then decided tape was not for him. I suggested he ask some other well-informed folks, but his reply was, "I suspect others who like tape--or worse, sell tapes--would deny this happens, so what good would that do?"With that, I'd like to ask others with real experience to weigh in on this subject. I have to admit I have not played any single tape in my library more than five times yet, so I wouldn't know the veracity of the claim, but it does worry me...
Hi Kip:
The person may have had bad experience with poor quality tapes with SSD or shedding at least.
I have a dedicated test RMG468 tape with various test tones recorded including 8Khhz, 10KHz, 16Khz, and 20Khz. It is what I play when I work on tape machines to troubleshoot and to discover issues with heads and other things. It must have been played at least 30 times going through current and past decks but no degradation during repro even today.
Matter of fact, I have both 15 ips NAB MRL tape I bought when I first got into reel to reel madness and the Tape Project IEC cal tape that came with my subscription I use several times on each new machines that show up on my farm. Both cal tapes are still fine.
If all tapes lose high frequency after only 5 plays, John McKnight at MRL would be a super rich man by now, and I need another room to store spare cal tapes...
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
A lot of it has to do with how the tape is handled and stored.
Storage - Keep tape neatly packed on a metal reel, tails out, in an upright position inside it's proper packaging. Keep in a stable temperature and humidityy controlled room away from any magnetic field and direct sunlight.
Handling - Tape will last longer on machines with proper alignment and tension. Also, machines with rollers, instead of stationary guides, will help your tape last longer.
Proper care and use of machines and tape will allow many plays without noticeable loss of hi-freq. signal. I'd say if you follow these guidelines, tapes will be able to give you 30 - 50 (or more) plays without any noticeable degradation.
Just one man's opinion.
Storage - Keep tape neatly packed on a metal reel, tails out, in an upright position inside it's proper packaging. Keep in a stable temperature and humidityy controlled room away from any magnetic field and direct sunlight.
Handling - Tape will last longer on machines with proper alignment and tension. Also, machines with rollers, instead of stationary guides, will help your tape last longer.
Proper care and use of machines and tape will allow many plays without noticeable loss of hi-freq. signal. I'd say if you follow these guidelines, tapes will be able to give you 30 - 50 (or more) plays without any noticeable degradation.
Just one man's opinion.
Noticeable sonic degradation after five plays sounds like very lousy tape. It's possible the tape deck was badly misaligned, increasing stress (tension) and wear on the tape, but the only time I have seen/heard that was with very cheap (or very old) tape.
Another possibility is implied by Bruce -- if the tape was stored badly between plays rapid degradation could occur. "Badly" could be loosely-wound, in a hot environment, or (and yes I have seen this) a place too close to a high-power electrical source or magnet that causes partial erasure (most likely for fast failure). E.g. audiophile friend, box of priceless tapes left on the floor in living room after a move prior to setting up system, dirty carpet after move, wife with a vacuum -- nuff said!
FWIWFM - Don
Another possibility is implied by Bruce -- if the tape was stored badly between plays rapid degradation could occur. "Badly" could be loosely-wound, in a hot environment, or (and yes I have seen this) a place too close to a high-power electrical source or magnet that causes partial erasure (most likely for fast failure). E.g. audiophile friend, box of priceless tapes left on the floor in living room after a move prior to setting up system, dirty carpet after move, wife with a vacuum -- nuff said!
FWIWFM - Don
Actually, Rich Brown rented a Toyota Prius and left some of his master tapes on the floor of the car - right above the electrical motor... Rich should chime in to tell the sad story first hand. ;-)
Actually ran into that problem many years ago when covering Chesky Record's remastering of the early RCA LSCs. RCA pulled out the original I think 30 ips master tapes of LSC 1806, spooled it up and then we heard a thunk-thunk-thunk on the tapes. Surmised it had been near a magnetic field too
Tape life span
It turned out not to be an issue with the electrical field in the Prius causing the transient pops on a few of my tapes in February. We now think the pops were caused by a static charge that was developed when the tapes were brought in from a cold car into the listening room. I've never experienced this before and I thought the tapes were ruined. They played fine after being at room temperature overnight.
Rich Brown
It turned out not to be an issue with the electrical field in the Prius causing the transient pops on a few of my tapes in February. We now think the pops were caused by a static charge that was developed when the tapes were brought in from a cold car into the listening room. I've never experienced this before and I thought the tapes were ruined. They played fine after being at room temperature overnight.
Rich Brown
Could also have been moisture condensing on the tape and causing alignment/gap issues. Either way, glad they turned out OK!
Friend with the vacuum cleaner, eh, not so lucky...
Friend with the vacuum cleaner, eh, not so lucky...
i know that Paul Stubblebine and Doc B tested a number of tape formulas before they decided on which to use for the Tape Project with longevity in mind both physical and retaining optimal fidelity. also considered was a tape that would be compatable with a broad range of head designs. i'm sure their comments can be found on the Tape Project Forum relating to this question. as i recall they said that there are formulations that are hotter than what they chose that will have more high frequency response, but that different formulas retained that for different length of time. some are more suited to studio use for recording and mastering, others are better for archieving and will hold better longer.
as i've never done any comparing i can't comment from experience, other than i've played some of my tapes 50+ times with zero audible effect (mostly non-TP tapes). it may help that so far i've only used my Studer A-820, which not only has phenominal 'easy on the tape' tape mechanism, but the tape path is also supposed to be particularly immune to getting magnatized.....and i never demag it as instructed by Fred Thal.
as i've never done any comparing i can't comment from experience, other than i've played some of my tapes 50+ times with zero audible effect (mostly non-TP tapes). it may help that so far i've only used my Studer A-820, which not only has phenominal 'easy on the tape' tape mechanism, but the tape path is also supposed to be particularly immune to getting magnatized.....and i never demag it as instructed by Fred Thal.
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Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
This is interesting. I know Charles and he has mentioned to me that this process can extend tape life several hundred years.
http://www.rezerex.com/Home_Page.html
http://www.rezerex.com/Home_Page.html
Well... After this post appeared some days back, suddenly I have been receiving some questions from the "un-converted ones" that tape loses high frequency detail and extension after 5 plays or so. I am guessing if someone just opened the sheeps fence (sorry, a Mexican way to say that someone started a rumor) to interfiere in the further development of this media... Just curious.
tape lifespan
I have tapes from the early 70s with test tones to 20Khz and they still measure flat to within 1/2 db all the way to 20K. These tapes have been played more than 30 times.
Rich Brown
Portland, Oregon
I have tapes from the early 70s with test tones to 20Khz and they still measure flat to within 1/2 db all the way to 20K. These tapes have been played more than 30 times.
Rich Brown
Portland, Oregon
BASF and Maxell published tape wear studies at one time. I had the papers but couldn't find them in a box and haven't looked on-line (lazy, lack of time, senile, take your pick). IIRC it took 100 - 250 plays before "significant" wear and FR/DR degradation was seen, and I think significant was 1 dB 'ish.
Hi Sam,
Fred did the alignment with his tape after his refurbish work was done, as far as i know he never did any demag and strongly recommended against it.
best regards,
Mike
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