RCM fluids/brushes
- Thread starter Shaffer
- Start date
I am partial to Disk Doctor record brushes and Audio Intelligent cleaning solutions. I do the scrub on a table with the records lying on microfiber towels. I scrub, wipe with micro towel and do the finish rinse and dry with my Audio Desk record cleaning machine.
I've been using DD brushes and fluids - the 1-step and the 2-step. Recently, though, I've had great luck with the Record Time product. So much so that I've essentially stopped using DD 1-step. Record Time is noticeably quieter.
Brush-wise, I like to prime the microfiber before using; cover the entire area with fluid, but not as to soak. That's my big thing (lol).
Brush-wise, I like to prime the microfiber before using; cover the entire area with fluid, but not as to soak. That's my big thing (lol).
My first post here. I like the DD brushes as well. Not sold on their Miracle Cleaner though. First off, I would like it to be simpler. I first apply the diluted MC, then VAC. Then I rinse twice, as recommended. My only point of comparison is MFSL one step, formerly RRL. Using the all-ready to go MFSL, i simply brush on & Vac. Then, I find just ONE Aquafina or distilled H2O rinse seems fine. One thing I can say is the record looks cleaner w/ the MFSL. All that said, I have Audio Intelligent arriving soon, since my MFSL was getting low. I went w/ the AI #6 one-step. Do others here prefer to apply the fluid, NOT using the RCM. Cheers-Don
I am partial to the Walker Audio Prelude 4-step method. I use a combination of the DD/Music Direct brushes and the Walker brushes. I use the HannL GmbH record cleaning machine, which replace a Loricraft.
I'm running very low on Record Time, which I love, and I'd also like to pickup a deep cleaner. I have the DD 2-step. Is there a product that's more effective for albums that need that extra touch? I'll be ordering tomorrow and any/all suggestions are appreciated.
I think the enzyme cleaners are awesome. I have largely used the Walker 4 step process, but there is an even wider range with the AIVS and I think even MoFi may now offer one. I like the MoFi brushes (really pads) with grippy handles.
My VPI just died, so I'm pondering whether to go ultrasonic.
My VPI just died, so I'm pondering whether to go ultrasonic.
Record Time is an enzyme cleaner sold by Musical Surroundings. I'd go AVIS or MOFI RCF/enzyme. AVIS one step/#15 w/H2O rinse is quite good.
That said, the US machines are my choice but obviously they're a bit more costly.
I'm of two minds when it comes to brushes, so either the MOFI, VPI or AVIS seem to work well. Would though like someday to try the Loricraft goat hair brush.
I really like DD Miracle (this stuff is supposed to be diluted with water) and AIVS #15. I don't find a big difference between them. As long as you do two water rinses to get all the soap solution off they will both get records in sufficiently good condition playing quietly.
AIVS's Jim Pendleton recommends leaving the AIVS solution on the vinyl for 4-6 minutes to bring up any crud in the grooves to the surface. In my experience his advice is spot on. If the solution starts to evaporate I apply more and gently agitate it again. Using that method with DD Miracle I find both work equally well. In the past I would vacuum off the DD Miracle as soon as it was applied. Since I was vacuuming the DD Miracle off immediately I was finding I was getting better results with AIVS. Both equalized when I left the DD Miracle on the vinyl for a similar amount of time, then vacuumed.
I use VinylZyme (recommended by Loricraft) for the grungy stuff, but rarely buy records that warrant it. I've had the same bottle for a long time.
AIVS's Jim Pendleton recommends leaving the AIVS solution on the vinyl for 4-6 minutes to bring up any crud in the grooves to the surface. In my experience his advice is spot on. If the solution starts to evaporate I apply more and gently agitate it again. Using that method with DD Miracle I find both work equally well. In the past I would vacuum off the DD Miracle as soon as it was applied. Since I was vacuuming the DD Miracle off immediately I was finding I was getting better results with AIVS. Both equalized when I left the DD Miracle on the vinyl for a similar amount of time, then vacuumed.
I use VinylZyme (recommended by Loricraft) for the grungy stuff, but rarely buy records that warrant it. I've had the same bottle for a long time.
Agreed I actually used to carry out the cleaning process process twice. But I find iit's also important to periodically swish the fluid around --even if not adding more fluid-- before vacuuming for best results.
But that's why I like the US sound. No fuss no muss and no 15 mins or more depending on what process one uses to clean an LP. It was getting silly to use one fluid to wash cherished records and another quicker method for others.
My concern about using two cleaning systems (aside from labor) is that any residue left by the cleaning fluids could screw up the US machines- isn't that why some people were having 'foaming' problems with the Audio Desk?
Myles- you know biology- I would assume that the best vacuum type cleaner (string or wand, I don't care) will suck up the liquid, but on a molecular level, isn't there still going to be some residue (of the cleaning fluid) which remains?
I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that one of the reasons for multi-step fluid cleaning is to keep displacing the prior fluid until you are down to lab water, then 'finishing rinse' (at least with Walker, which I assume has some tiny amount of alcohol to enhance evaporation) so that you are left with as little fluid residue as possible.
Also, I think sometimes (and you have alluded to this in prior threads Myles), we are hearing the sonic signature of the fluids.
Myles- you know biology- I would assume that the best vacuum type cleaner (string or wand, I don't care) will suck up the liquid, but on a molecular level, isn't there still going to be some residue (of the cleaning fluid) which remains?
I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that one of the reasons for multi-step fluid cleaning is to keep displacing the prior fluid until you are down to lab water, then 'finishing rinse' (at least with Walker, which I assume has some tiny amount of alcohol to enhance evaporation) so that you are left with as little fluid residue as possible.
Also, I think sometimes (and you have alluded to this in prior threads Myles), we are hearing the sonic signature of the fluids.
That was one of my problems with the AudioDesk. The fan blowers did not get the vinyl completely dry (my old Loricraft and current VPI do a pretty good job in that regard). Looking close enough I could see water left behind in the grooves. Not surprisingly vinyl cleaned on the AD would sound better if I listened to it the next day with the vinyl drying in a dish rack vs listening to it shortly after cleaning.
Myles, thank you for the advice. I ordered MOFI RCF/enzyme and more Record Time. Should have the package later in the week.
At least two things are at play:
1) The type of surfactants/wetting agents used. Most importantly, different surfactants need different amounts of rinses to completely remove them.
2) The surface tension effect. As the volume of fluid on the LP goes down, the surface tension of the RCF left goes up. The net effect is that it's very hard for many RCM to get the last vestiges of the fluid off the LP. Some cleaners like the VPI Typhoon and others with a more power vacuum motor or adjustable vacuum in an attempt to address this issue. It does make an audible difference.
As I mentioned, I've been using DD 2-step and 1-step, DD brushes, and Record Time. Last few days, I've been testing MOFI RCF/enzyme fluid on pressings with residual noise, even after a multi-step cleaning process using a 16.5. I let the fluid soak into the LP for ~5 minutes, worked it again lightly, did a double rinse and the change in playback noise was profound. I'm a believer. Highly recommended.
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