Positive Feedback: Article on Jitter.

[opus111]

The designers of Carnegie however continue to use numbers to deny empirical evidence that the sound is not quite right.

That is indeed characteristic of 'objectivists' - they're attached to their models and those attachments (which are emotional) cause them to deny the content of other people's (i.e. subjectivists) senses.

 

[MylesBAstor]

-- Hey those six expert scientists on earthquake's predictions (seismologists?) in Italy; they were all convicted, and condemned to spend quite a long time in jail! ...Years if I recall, but I might be wrong too.

You guys know what I'm talkin' 'bout?

That's what they should have done to the acousticians who ruined Carnegie Hall as well as Cyril Harris for designing three of the worst sounding halls ever in history.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Of course the meteorologist having predicted rain will never ignore empirical evidence that it didn't. The designers of Carnegie however continue to use numbers to deny empirical evidence that the sound is not quite right.

It was obvious to anyone who attended Carnegie on frequent basis. Some of the Carnegie crowd argue that pre-rennovation, every seat in the house was primo; now, there are certain seats that are primo and other where you might as well sit behind a column.

Whatever, I hope they never, ever decide to rennovate the last of the great US halls, eg BSH!

 

[NorthStar]

- If all the 'bad' audio designers would spend time in jail, the world would also be a better place.

 

[Gregadd]

- If all the 'bad' audio designers would spend time in jail, the world would also be a better place.

Were they not all bad at one point in there career?

 

[NorthStar]

Were they not all bad at one point in there career?

---- Perhaps; I would say that it's fair to assume. :b

 

[Soundminded]

What's next IQ tests?

Oh yes and all these clowns running around in white lab coats with their pocket protectors, sliderules, computers, measuring equipment, etc. still fxxxed up the sound of Carnegie Hall. So much for all their mathematical models that showed the sound of the hall before and after were identical (remember the concrete slab that was left behind under the stage?). And no I didn't do a double blind test.

Thank you for making my point for me Myles. I posted on another thread about hearing versus measurements that acoustics as a science is still in a very primitive state of development. Some disagreed with me but this and so many other failures show that the best the best practitioners of this science can do is often hit or miss. And far too often it's a miss. Since the effect of acoustics is the overwhelming preponderance of what we hear at live concerts (at least we do know that much) it's crazy to say that any of the equipment reflected in the current technology is accurate. How can you say that when the target goal is hardly understood. One thing anyone with even normal hearing should be able to tell immediately is that none of the sounds produced by our technology is remotely like what you hear at a live performance. And if you've ever heard live unamplified performances at great or even good concert halls, you know how much more pleasing most people find that sound compared to what comes out of a phonograph or CD player, any phonograph or CD player. This is why IMO investment in what has become ludicrously expensive equipment expecting the kind of results you hear live is a bad investment. Only a small segment of the potential market is duped. The rest of it sees the high end as not much better or for that matter different from i-pods with earbuds or HT sound systems. While there are clearly differences, IMO they are usually not so great as to represent a rational expense for most people. Frankly I think you can do as well or better at a small fraction of the cost with vintage equipment and DIY projects. Too bad the old red blooded American boy spirit of tinkering, experimenting, building, that characterized our culture for so long has given way to the couch potato and video game culture of modern youth. When I was that age......

 

[mep]

Frankly I think you can do as well or better at a small fraction of the cost with vintage equipment and DIY projects.

Examples please. I have heard this before and slight variations on the same theme.

 

[NorthStar]

Thank you for making my point for me Myles. I posted on another thread about hearing versus measurements that acoustics as a science is still in a very primitive state of development. Some disagreed with me but this and so many other failures show that the best the best practitioners of this science can do is often hit or miss. And far too often it's a miss. Since the effect of acoustics is the overwhelming preponderance of what we hear at live concerts (at least we do know that much) it's crazy to say that any of the equipment reflected in the current technology is accurate. How can you say that when the target goal is hardly understood. One thing anyone with even normal hearing should be able to tell immediately is that none of the sounds produced by our technology is remotely like what you hear at a live performance. And if you've ever heard live unamplified performances at great or even good concert halls, you know how much more pleasing most people find that sound compared to what comes out of a phonograph or CD player, any phonograph or CD player. This is why IMO investment in what has become ludicrously expensive equipment expecting the kind of results you hear live is a bad investment. Only a small segment of the potential market is duped. The rest of it sees the high end as not much better or for that matter different from i-pods with earbuds or HT sound systems. While there are clearly differences, IMO they are usually not so great as to represent a rational expense for most people. Frankly I think you can do as well or better at a small fraction of the cost with vintage equipment and DIY projects. Too bad the old red blooded American boy spirit of tinkering, experimenting, building, that characterized our culture for so long has given way to the couch potato and video game culture of modern youth. When I was that age......

---- That, among other inexpensive and greater solutions;
like a good room for example, and good quality recordings of course.

* Great post, as usual Soundminded. :b

 

[NorthStar]

I read this thread with growing consternation.
From a European viewpoint a universal health insurance seems an absolute necessity.
How you do it is really a question, you will not be able to solve in a thread - and it seems outright ridiculous to blame Obama for its actual form, as the politicians seemed to have argued just like this thread with extreme examples which prove nothing and are utterly unhelpful to actually find a way.

Somebody even went so far as to say (quoted from memory, as i cannot find it anymore) "..the reason we lost" EXCUSE me, who is we? I am Swiss, and as far as the american vote concerns me, I have won ;-)

But I still wish us all well, as health care is just a unsolvable problem: Just lets stop growing old!

---- I believe that you are mistaking this thread with another one.