Pimped out Premier or Lampi Pacific?

[microstrip]

I am glad I have no dog in this hunt.

Not yet, but your understanding of it denotes you are training your puppy ...

 

[bonzo75]

Mike, all dacs you compared with the GG sounded better in your system. Your system is quite specifically tuned to an extreme scenario. Or, given the variance, there was some issue with that GG.

This has not happened in any other system. There are enough cases now where Lampi was reported to be Better than MSB, and it does not matter GG or Pac. There have been sufficient cases against dCS, trinity, aqua (a person I know prefers even the Atlantic to his aqua formula), TAD CD player, Stahltek 75k CD and transport, CH precision .

 

[Zero000]

The problem is basically this.

It's very, very hard to build a solid state output stage that sounds subjectively better than an optimised for a particular system triode based output stage i.e. you have the right triode in place for your tastes and system.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, all dacs you compared with the GG sounded better in your system. Your system is quite specifically tuned to an extreme scenario. Or, given the variance, there was some issue with that GG.

This has not happened in any other system. There are enough cases now where Lampi was reported to be Better than MSB, and it does not matter GG or Pac. There have been sufficient cases against dCS, trinity, aqua (a person I know prefers even the Atlantic to his aqua formula), TAD CD player, Stahltek 75k CD and transport, CH precision .

essentially i had 2 separate GG's in my system; my original GG you heard; then it was a new GG (GG1.5) with the same original top plate. loved them both. had all the tube choices , including those ones you brought. used a set of interconnects worth more than the dac. a top level server.

i could have enjoyed that GG1.5 forever.

still a Lampi fan.

the idea that my GG's were flawed is not reasonable. my system does reveal the whole picture to an extreme degree. that is a reasonable data point.

 

[Steve williams]

Steve,

I can't understand why a comparison carried in your system can support such generic conclusion.

As I have been listening to several sets of amplifiers and several DACs I found that my preference of DAC depends strongly on the system. A top DAC can sound miserable in a top system if they do not match. Lamm's can sound really excellent but IMHO are very specific in terms of matching (BTW the DCS Vivaldi was really a great match with them).

Batri owns Bakoon 13r (SS) and Avantgarde speakers - the best sound I ever listened from Avantgarde´s used a SS DAC and a SS amplifier. IMHO the thread should focus on his system, not on comparing the weight of the fan clubs.

there were several reasons for my decision but when all was said and done it came down to my being a tube guy and that in my system the output stage of the Lampii was subjectively better than the Select. Having said this the Select is an amazing DAC and is only to be praised. However in my system the Pacific was the one which in my system just sounded better

 

[microstrip]

The problem is basically this.

It's very, very hard to build a solid state output stage that sounds subjectively better than an optimised for a particular system triode based output stage i.e. you have the right triode in place for your tastes and system.

Yes, if we prefer triode sound it is very hard for anyone to build a solid state output stage that sounds to us subjectively better than a triode output stage ...

Tube versus SS lasts for decades. I can't understand how some one still wants to find a new absolute "truth" in this hobby. IMHO a proper and interesting discussion on the Lampizator output would also need measurements, we are still at the level of a miss contest ...

 

[KeithR]

Mike, all dacs you compared with the GG sounded better in your system. Your system is quite specifically tuned to an extreme scenario. Or, given the variance, there was some issue with that GG.

This has not happened in any other system. There are enough cases now where Lampi was reported to be Better than MSB, and it does not matter GG or Pac. There have been sufficient cases against dCS, trinity, aqua (a person I know prefers even the Atlantic to his aqua formula), TAD CD player, Stahltek 75k CD and transport, CH precision .

and there are plenty who have chosen MSB over Lampi - I'm not sure where you are getting this. You are data mining.

I mean, who cares what everyone's preference is. It's like this insistence that Lampi > world which is just false. Audio is rarely about absolutes. If one wants a tube dac, they will probalby go Lampi - if not, there are many fine options that people prefer.

This is even worse than the horns/SETs cabal on WBF.

 

[bonzo75]

and there are plenty who have chosen MSB over Lampi -.

This is not correct at all, except for Mike I do not anyone who has done a compare and chosen so. Most have been like you, heard Lampi in some show, decided they don't like SETs, decided they want a SS dac, or they have valves downstream, or some such logic which has nothing to do with listening to both, just surfing the forum and applying some guesstimates.

Yes, Lampi is my favorite thing in hifi because with Lampi there is certainty. With all else there is choice. Speakers, amps, drivers, carts, many options. If you ever heard it instead of arguing, you would understand why that following exists. But you won't.

The horns/SETs cabal exists for a reason too, people who have see a lot of hear and finally landed there. Look at the people here, or visit Munich in Silbatone room, or ETF, and you will realize their wealth in terms of money and experience and why they are into horns. The other speakers bandied about here are the same reason for those who who do not choose Lampi. Essentially don't do your homework, visit a show, look at price tags and decide what's good.

 

[Steve williams]

and there are plenty who have chosen MSB over Lampi - I'm not sure where you are getting this. You are data mining.

I mean, who cares what everyone's preference is. It's like this insistence that Lampi > world which is just false. Audio is rarely about absolutes. If one wants a tube dac, they will probalby go Lampi - if not, there are many fine options that people prefer.

This is even worse than the horns/SETs cabal on WBF.

To me the answer is quite simple. It was what sounded best in my system and TBH I wasn't prepared for the result as all of you know that my intent was to buy the Select (which I must continue to say is a truly remarkable DAC BUT in my system the Lampi sounded better and not just by a little bit

Like Keith I too was worried about quality control issues as I had also read reports here which concerned me. I was also concerned about the possibility I would develop a hum in the system as many members reported. I read that many members were hearing a hum with the ethernet port o the Pacific. As a result of and because I will never use Ethernet I took every precaution and ordered my Pacific without an Ethernet port even though it did come included in the package

I also worried about the tubes ringing as many members reported. AS a result I ordered 2 different sets of output tubes hoping to find a set which had no ringing. I even bought several sets of HAL's tube damping rings as many members found these to be a good solution

Suffice it to say that from the moment I plugged in the Pacific there was no hum. Further I have heard zero ringing in the tubes and see no need to apply the tube damping rings

Finally I continue to be enthralled with the standard KR 242 and I have still yet to introduce the special RK-KR PX 25 into the DAC

Simply put this transition for me has been totally seamless and it just seems to get better every day.

If this makes me part of the Lampi cult, then I guess I am as I have found the customer service which I received to be exemplary and all of my concerns that others have mentioned to be non issues.

So yes, I agree that one's choice is personal and system related and for me it was the output stage of both DAC's that swayed my decision BUT that does not mean to say that I am knocking the Select as I loved that DAC. Bottom line however was the overall sound and the Pacific for my ears in my system was vastly better

 

[Mike Lavigne]

This is not correct at all, except for Mike I do not anyone who has done a compare and chosen so. Most have been like you, heard Lampi in some show, decided they don't like SETs, decided they want a SS dac, or they have valves downstream, or some such logic which has nothing to do with listening to both, just surfing the forum and applying some guesstimates.

Yes, Lampi is my favorite thing in hifi because with Lampi there is certainty. With all else there is choice. Speakers, amps, drivers, carts, many options. If you ever heard it instead of arguing, you would understand why that following exists. But you won't.

The horns/SETs cabal exists for a reason too, people who have see a lot of hear and finally landed there. Look at the people here, or visit Munich in Silbatone room, or ETF, and you will realize their wealth in terms of money and experience and why they are into horns. The other speakers bandied about here are the same reason for those who who do not choose Lampi. Essentially don't do your homework, visit a show, look at price tags and decide what's good.

Ked,

i appreciate your single minded passion. and the simplicity of your perspectives. but i disagree completely that anyone who does not drink your cool aid is either lazy or stupid. that is just wrong. but that is what you would have us believe.

love,

Mike

 

[bonzo75]

The customer service has always been exemplary, as well as their upgrade pattern

 

[bonzo75]

Ked,

i appreciate your single minded passion. and the simplicity of your perspectives. but i disagree completely that anyone who does not drink your cool aid is either lazy or stupid. that is just wrong.

love,

Mike

No I am saying those who make judgements without exposure to a component are stupid or lazy. That is correct

 

[microstrip]

Mike, all dacs you compared with the GG sounded better in your system. Your system is quite specifically tuned to an extreme scenario. Or, given the variance, there was some issue with that GG.

This has not happened in any other system. There are enough cases now where Lampi was reported to be Better than MSB, and it does not matter GG or Pac. There have been sufficient cases against dCS, trinity, aqua (a person I know prefers even the Atlantic to his aqua formula), TAD CD player, Stahltek 75k CD and transport, CH precision .

This thread remembers me of two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch ...

I can't understand how people still argue that X must be better than Y because Z people have X and W people have Y.

BTW unfortunately WBF active members are in such small number that words like enough and sufficient are absolutely meaningless, and surely abusive.

 

[bonzo75]

And I don't have any single minded passion. I have been here supporting apogee scintilla, YG, Zellaton, Mike's SS room, Lampi with audionet, dagostino, and horns. MSB select is just not in the Lampi class does not make me single minded

 

[bonzo75]

This thread remembers me of two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch ...

I can't understand how people still argue that X must be better than Y because Z people have X and W people have Y.

BTW unfortunately WBF active members are in such small number that words like enough and sufficient are absolutely meaningless, and surely abusive.

We have some donkeys voting, that's the issue

 

[Steve williams]

This thread remembers me of two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch ...

I totally disagree. These are merely different approaches to the answer posed in the OP. People hear differently and have different systems. I think the answers here reflect that.There is no one voting what to have for lunch. Plus i was showing that my experience with Lampi has been totally seamless with zero issues

 

[Rhapsody]

I mean, who cares what everyone's preference is.

Keith, I REALLY think you hit the nail on the head with this one.

Saying that they prefer this or that or they know someone that prefers something or something else is as bad as "snake-oil" to me. I personally only care about what I think when I hear something and if it works for me. I could care less what anyone else thinks about comparisons.

Then add in that whatever someone else likes in a completely different room, different system, different ears/brain etc......geezzzzz.

 

[Steve williams]

I personally only care about what I think when I hear something and if it works for me. I could care less what anyone else thinks about comparisons.

That was exactly what I said. Wouldn't you agree that in a proper decision making purchase that comparisons in one's system is essential and that the purchase is only indicative of what pleases them more in their system. No one IMO is saying anything more. Further the OP in this thread begs comparison so where's the problem?

 

[Rhapsody]

That was exactly what I said. Wouldn't you agree that in a proper decision making purchase that comparisons in one's system is essential and that the purchase is only indicative of what pleases them more in their system. No one IMO is saying anything more. Further the OP in this thread begs comparison so where's the problem?

Yep, I agree Audio guys should pick components that enhance their personal enjoyment when listening to music, not what sounds good to someone else or in some other system that really doesn't mean anything with respect to what the end result will be in your personal system.

And then throw that one persons sonic preference has tonality as the paramount variable. Another loves layering and a 3D holographic soundstage. Another- blinding dynamics or depth 20 feet out the back wall.

So many variables......so much fun

 

[Zero000]

Yes, if we prefer triode sound it is very hard for anyone to build a solid state output stage that sounds to us subjectively better than a triode output stage ...

Tube versus SS lasts for decades. I can't understand how some one still wants to find a new absolute "truth" in this hobby. IMHO a proper and interesting discussion on the Lampizator output would also need measurements, we are still at the level of a miss contest ...

Strange post. I am the absolute truth. The instigator of the big bang. All knowing, all embracing, existing since before the beginning and indeed after the end of things. You get the idea.

Measurebating won't change anything either. You know that. Interesting to a degree though I agree.