Phono shootout CH/EAR/Thoress/Phasemation

[Juiced]

thank you for the review.

it's nice seeing the ear 88pb compared to heavy weights such as the CH and Thrax

 

[thekong]

Thank you for your reply. I’m not electrician, but I guess the noise of my power supplies goes as: power supply>turntable>phono cable>phono stage, that’s why the SUT blocks it (both Phonos have built in SUT). Will a transformer between power grid and the power supply solve the situation? But I will try for sure.
My question is there should be a voltage difference between input and output of the transformer, my grid is 230v and my turntable is also 230v, is there an isolation transformer doing this job?

I am no engineer, so can’t explain how exactly an isolation transformer works, but as far as I understand an isolation transformer keeps the input/output voltage the same while filtering out the noise.

 

[mtemur]

An isolation transformer alone doesn’t necessarily filter noise. Some noise filtering can occur only if there’s an additional filtering circuit integrated with the transformer.

From experience, adding an isolation transformer before the main receptacle that powers the entire audio setup is one of the worst things you can do. All isolation transformers impart their own character to the sound — they slow it down and kill the liveliness. Maybe, just maybe, one could be used only for the turntable power supply, but I seriously doubt even that.

I know these are strong words, but in my opinion, there’s simply no way an isolation transformer powering the whole system can sound better than a direct, uninterrupted connection.

 

[thekong]

An isolation transformer alone doesn’t necessarily filter noise. Some noise filtering can occur only if there’s an additional filtering circuit integrated with the transformer.

From experience, adding an isolation transformer before the main receptacle that powers the entire audio setup is one of the worst things you can do. All isolation transformers impart their own character to the sound — they slow it down and kill the liveliness. Maybe, just maybe, one could be used only for the turntable power supply, but I seriously doubt even that.

I know these are strong words, but in my opinion, there’s simply no way an isolation transformer powering the whole system can sound better than a direct, uninterrupted connection.

I agree, an isolation transformer for the audio system is probably not a good idea. My suggestion for the isolation transformer (maybe needing some extra filtering circuit) was only for the turntable power supply, which, in this case, is feeding noise to the phono!

Would an isolation transformer for only the turntable power supply block its noise from feeding back into the main electric circuit, and then to the phono? Thanks

 

[mtemur]

Would an isolation transformer for only the turntable power supply block its noise from feeding back into the main electric circuit, and then to the phono? Thanks

It can — maybe it uses a filter circuit or is designed with a balanced topology. Even then, such designs help prevent mains noise from leaking into the audio equipment, but they can also work in reverse, isolating noise generated by the equipment itself.

 

[sbo6]

Thanks for the vg review. I'm curious why you didn't chose Allnic, with their onboard SUTs should have enough gain and vg quality.

 

[worldtime]

Thanks for the vg review. I'm curious why you didn't chose Allnic, with their onboard SUTs should have enough gain and vg quality.

Thanks. Allnic is on my list, I planed to demo more phonos if Iwere not satisfied with any of these. Allnic phono settings are on the top of the machine, it's quite difficult to operate if it's in the middle of the rack. it has separated power supply, and I only have one slot left. So that's why it's not in the first round. CH is a 2boxes combo also, but it's kinda transistor phono bench mark, I have to try it first.

 

[Porsche]

fm acoustics and call it a day

 

[matakana]

fm acoustics and call it a day

But thats the price of a Porsche !

 

[sbo6]

Thanks. Allnic is on my list, I planed to demo more phonos if Iwere not satisfied with any of these. Allnic phono settings are on the top of the machine, it's quite difficult to operate if it's in the middle of the rack. it has separated power supply, and I only have one slot left. So that's why it's not in the first round. CH is a 2boxes combo also, but it's kinda transistor phono bench mark, I have to try it first.

Nice TT, I have the Ascona Mk II.

 

[worldtime]

Nice TT, I have the Ascona Mk II.

nice turntable too. Your power supply might not have noise issue since it is early version. Some told me noise comes after AS source the power supply from China.

 

[bonzo75]

fm acoustics and call it a day

Both TZBC and I compared the FM 123 to thrax mk1 and preferred Thrax, including with F M preamp. The thrax Mk2 was better. Carts were clearaudio GFS and Top wing red sparrow.

 

[andromedaaudio]

fm acoustics and call it a day

Agreed

FMA 223 .phonomaster after that no more shoot outs / upgrades are needed.

Plus the decrackle function really works .

I might even buy one without owning a TT lol , because its sound is golden

 

[sbo6]

nice turntable too. Your power supply might not have noise issue since it is early version. Some told me noise comes after AS source the power supply from China.

Good to know, thanks.

 

[Audioarts]

For all you FM fans and the venerable 223 phonomaster in particular which you just highlighted, I have a trade in pictured here should anyone be interested. It’s quite rare. Please message me to discuss further….

 

[DasguteOhr]

nice turntable too. Your power supply might not have noise issue since it is early version. Some told me noise comes after AS source the power supply from China.

That may be possible, but I don't think Karl Wirt, a meticulous mechanical engineer from the Black Forest, would let the Chinese ruin his precision. Anyone who knows Swabia wouldn't think so. This is a small family business (he and his wife and four employees).

 

[worldtime]

That may be possible, but I don't think Karl Wirt, a meticulous mechanical engineer from the Black Forest, would let the Chinese ruin his precision. Anyone who knows Swabia wouldn't think so. This is a small family business (he and his wife and four employees).

Ehhhhhh, if your logic is someone couldnt do something. Because of his superior nationality. I think better read more history. Anyway, Let’s put this noise issue n cause away. There is a quite some engineering design flaws in Ascona design. The locking screws of the arm base cantilever is under the table, which means you have to lift the table high enough to have the operation clearance. Ok you may say the board is SME type, there is space to adjust the overhang. But what if the hole is Jelco, or any other single hole, or what if you are using SPU which doesn’t give any overhang adjustment on the arm. The. Only way is to use the locking nut at the bottom, which is super inconvenient. Just have a look at techdas af5, how easy and intuitive for adjusting the armboard mounting position. Any engineering design is fighting with user is a bad design.
Not mentioning the table suffer power supply non responsive issues from time to time, so I have to turn the main switch off and on to make it work again. My point is just don’t blindly trust some so called meticulous engineer.

 

[dionisofun]

That may be possible, but I don't think Karl Wirt, a meticulous mechanical engineer from the Black Forest, would let the Chinese ruin his precision. Anyone who knows Swabia wouldn't think so. This is a small family business (he and his wife and four employees).

??????

 

[DasguteOhr]

Ehhhhhh, if your logic is someone couldnt do something. Because of his superior nationality. I think better read more history. Anyway, Let’s put this noise issue n cause away. There is a quite some engineering design flaws in Ascona design. The locking screws of the arm base cantilever is under the table, which means you have to lift the table high enough to have the operation clearance. Ok you may say the board is SME type, there is space to adjust the overhang. But what if the hole is Jelco, or any other single hole, or what if you are using SPU which doesn’t give any overhang adjustment on the arm. The. Only way is to use the locking nut at the bottom, which is super inconvenient. Just have a look at techdas af5, how easy and intuitive for adjusting the armboard mounting position. Any engineering design is fighting with user is a bad design.
Not mentioning the table suffer power supply non responsive issues from time to time, so I have to turn the main switch off and on to make it work again. My point is just don’t blindly trust some so called meticulous engineer.

Well then I ask myself why you didn't buy a Techdas if it's so much better. There's nothing innovative about the Techdas; it's a restyled copy of Micro Seiki.
ok they have learned something new they no longer make the platter from only one material.
Most of the innovations it describes already existed forty years. On the subject of nationality, we in Germany don't think we're any better. You should look into the hurdles that exist here in Germany for getting a product to market. You have to play through all the scenarios, no matter how stupid they are in the end that thing is bulletproof
Regarding the noise from the power supply, I would first cross-check whether it's really coming from the power supply. Just get a cheap 32-volt DC power supply (if I remember correctly) and try that out. Separate power supplies this type often react strongly to interference and location. If it's defective, any manufacturer will replace or repair it.

 

[worldtime]

Well then I ask myself why you didn't buy a Techdas if it's so much better. There's nothing innovative about the Techdas; it's a restyled copy of Micro Seiki.
ok they have learned something new they no longer make the platter from only one material.
Most of the innovations it describes already existed forty years. On the subject of nationality, we in Germany don't think we're any better. You should look into the hurdles that exist here in Germany for getting a product to market. You have to play through all the scenarios, no matter how stupid they are in the end that thing is bulletproof
Regarding the noise from the power supply, I would first cross-check whether it's really coming from the power supply. Just get a cheap 32-volt DC power supply (if I remember correctly) and try that out. Separate power supplies this type often react strongly to interference and location. If it's defective, any manufacturer will replace or repair it.

Oops, didn’t know you are German. I’m so Sorry you have to go through so much to bring a product to the market, it must be so tough. I apologize for doubting your national products. Really, How dare me, such a noob criticizing a German product I bought. But if you want to defend it, maybe you should get one first? Anyway, I’m getting a techdas. Just for curiosity of this 40 years non innovation product. But im keeping the Ascona, I’m sure it must be better.