New System Decisions

[Katzky]

Welcome Katzky to wbf.

Thanks, I’m glad to be here.

 

[Skanda]

I’ve owned s5 mk2’s for a while and moved to an m2 a few days ago. The s5’s are a fantastic speaker and you can really get a lot of enjoyment from them. I found them to be great all rounders in terms of genres. They also are pretty receptive to upstream changes so you can really tailor or alter the sound over time as you explore other gear.

My personal rec would be to save the money on the stands and stuff and put it towards a bigger gryphon esp one of the class a beasts. The s5’s like as much power as you’re willing to throw at them and I’ve used a big class a ss on them to great effect. They just keep opening up more and more. Another option would be to apply the budget to the speakers and get something from the m series. M2’s could work as could M3’s but the M2 at least is a hair more inefficient than the s5’s but I think the diablo should have the power.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The Magico choice is primarily due to “local” dealer only 600 Mike’s away from me, aesthetics, sealed design, size, and reputation. My local dealer sells Wilson & Rockport which are both too deep to comfortably (avoid divorce) fit in our room.

Was going to get ProAc K6 Signature prior to planning to leaving my cult. At this level I’m sure they’re all great since we lack exposure to anything other than Naim Ovators. Also... the Magico can be ordered in orange which is a big plus.

About the cables... was that merely a statement of fact or a suggestion? I already have reference level cables for the entire system so that’s not part of my budget. Of course Ill probably need to make some adjustments but that’s for next year.

Any speakers youve experienced good match with Diablo 300 and Humboldt?

That some people spend as much money on cables as they do on the rest of their system was merely a statement of fact. It is not something I would ever do myself or ever encourage people to do.

I have no experience with Humboldt.

KeithR loved the Gryphon Essence on Fyne F1-12s. I have not heard that combination myself, but I am confident it would be a wonderful combination. (Although my personal preference for driving F1-12s probably is 50 to 75 watts of push-pull tubes.)

It seems like your choice for Magico is based primarily on aesthetics and proximity to dealer. I respect those parameters, but I, personally, focus entirely on sound.

 

[Barry2013]

As with Ron I have no direct experience of the Humboldt but all the reports I have read speak very highly of it.
In case it helps domestic harmony the Vitus 030 is available in a lovely orange finish and I can speak very highly of it from personal ownership.

 

[TDX]

That Magico sounds really good Ron.

That some people spend as much money on cables as they do on the rest of their system was merely a statement of fact. It is not something I would ever do myself or ever encourage people to do.

I have no experience with Humboldt.

KeithR loved the Gryphon Essence on Fyne F1-12s. I have not heard that combination myself, but I am confident it would be a wonderful combination. (Although my personal preference for driving F1-12s probably is 50 to 75 watts of push-pull tubes.)

It seems like your choice for Magico is based primarily on aesthetics and proximity to dealer. I respect those parameters, but I, personally, focus entirely on sound.

 

[HenryD]

I’m calling dealer tomorrow re A5 vs S5.

I picked up the A5 over the Hailey 2.2. Fantastic speakers.

 

[Audire]

I picked up the A5 over the Hailey 2.2. Fantastic speakers.

Way to go on the A5s. I only have the A3s at present, and the A5s sound so much better. But I have M3s are on the way.

I do agree with Ron that at this level it’s all personal preference. With the name brands being discussed there really no wrong choices, just different ones depending upon our rooms, systems, and ears. They are all good.

 

[Lee]

That some people spend as much money on cables as they do on the rest of their system was merely a statement of fact. It is not something I would ever do myself or ever encourage people to do.

I have no experience with Humboldt.

KeithR loved the Gryphon Essence on Fyne F1-12s. I have not heard that combination myself, but I am confident it would be a wonderful combination. (Although my personal preference for driving F1-12s probably is 50 to 75 watts of push-pull tubes.)

It seems like your choice for Magico is based primarily on aesthetics and proximity to dealer. I respect those parameters, but I, personally, focus entirely on sound.

I tell my friends that my conclusions from running a couple of flagship cable lines was as follows...1. Expensive cables are actually worth it since it lowers the noise floor which is a three-for as it helps bass/mids/highs. 2. More expensive cables now tend to be 1/2 cable and 1/2 power conditioner, and 3. modern line conditioners and modern grounding devices are essential to getting the best performance out of a system.

 

[stehno]

My hifi system is currently dCS Rossini + Naim amplification + Naim speakers on Quadrispire SVT rack. Decided to move away from Naim due to overall complexity, maintenance, and space requirements. Trying to stick to a budget on the new system which tentatively includes

HRS SXR five shelf rack with E1 & S3 bases ($20k)
Diablo 300 ($18k)
Magico S5 MkII ($42k)

However.... the Humboldt exists.

I could get the Humboldt + Wilson Sabrina X (or used Magico S3 MkII) + HRS SXR amp stand with S3 base for about the same price.

Is the $20k rack overkill in the context of a $100k system?

What would you do? Unfortunately my location prevents any demos so I’m buying blind (deaf really).

What would I do? As usual, I certainly would not suggest doing what others suggest. You mentioned the HRS rack and asked if a $20k rack is overkill for a $100k system. And of course you received a number of responses from those who seemed to approach the subject from perhaps the same or similar context you put it out there. Perhaps a bit of an afterthought or perhaps from more of an aesthetic perspective rather than a performance-alone perspective.

I cannot speak for the HRS rack or any other from firsthand experince anyway. But I can speak from firsthand experience of my own custom racking system which costs about as much as my source, amps, and speakers. If I include my three fabulous passive, dedicated, and bi-directional filtering Jena Labs The TWO line conditioners, then my electrical and mechanical energy management sectors make up roughly 65% of my entire playback system's retail cost.

Based on my limited experience with managing electrical and mechanical energies, I've no doubt that the management of these two energies make up the foundation of every last playback system whether that foundation be inferior or superior. For it is the foundation that ultimately determines the performance of everything associated with that foundation. The line conditioners do a fabulous job of cleansing, filtering, purifying, and/or conditioning the universally noisy AC coming in from the street while the racking system has the potential to drastically further cleanse/purify the distorted electrical current including input signal inside the line condtioners and components. Such that they are now able to perform far closer to their optimal performance potentials rather than closer to their base potentials. Presumably this is accomplished by drastically lowering a playback system's noise floor. Bearing in mind that not all line conditioners are created equal nor are all racking systems nor are all designs or executions. For example. In my case, the line conditioners out-of-the-box do a fabulous job by improving the overall level of musicality. Aquiring superior line conditioners alone can usually catapult performance over most other playback systems. But when mounted into my rack, I venture their level of improvement increases about 4 or even 5 fold (no way to measure such things). Just as it does for the source and amps.

I noticed that Bobvin provided a picture of his beautiful listening room and it's actually one of my favorites from a visual perspective. I figure if a picture is worth a thousand words, then an in-room recording must be worth a thousand pictures, right? So below I give a glimpse of what a superior foundation can do for even the most humble but hopefully well-thought-out playback system.

What would I suggest you do? If all-out performance is the name of your game, I suggest doing the opposite of what everybody else is doing by turning your focus toward electrical and mechanical energy management as though THEY are the foundation of your playback system (because they are) and start treating your speakers and components and room as accessories (because they are). Study the HRS racking system you have. Avoid any token efforts by studying HRS' philosophies and strategies and try to engage their mindset by absolutely maximizing any potential minimums, etc. If after that the HRS rack still does not blow you away from a musical perspective, then consider a competing rack or perhaps one employing a different/better strategy. But that's me.

 

[Katzky]

As with Ron I have no direct experience of the Humboldt but all the reports I have read speak very highly of it.
In case it helps domestic harmony the Vitus 030 is available in a lovely orange finish and I can speak very highly of it from personal ownership.

Well I do like orange things. Are there any Vitus dealers in the US?

 

[Katzky]

I have had S3 MkIIs driven by a Diablo 300 for several years and think they are an excellent match. I listen to mostly classical and jazz. The Humboldt is in a different class. I recently heard A5s driven by the latest Dag Progression pre/stereo amp and was very impressed. In the US, the A5s are a screaming bargain IMO.

Purchased the A5s today will be delivered in a few weeks. Now I need an amplifier.

 

[Katzky]

What would I do? As usual, I certainly would not suggest doing what others suggest. You mentioned the HRS rack and asked if a $20k rack is overkill for a $100k system. And of course you received a number of responses from those who seemed to approach the subject from perhaps the same or similar context you put it out there. Perhaps a bit of an afterthought or perhaps from more of an aesthetic perspective rather than a performance-alone perspective.

I cannot speak for the HRS rack or any other from firsthand experince anyway. But I can speak from firsthand experience of my own custom racking system which costs about as much as my source, amps, and speakers. If I include my three fabulous passive, dedicated, and bi-directional filtering Jena Labs The TWO line conditioners, then my electrical and mechanical energy management sectors make up roughly 65% of my entire playback system's retail cost.

Based on my limited experience with managing electrical and mechanical energies, I've no doubt that the management of these two energies make up the foundation of every last playback system whether that foundation be inferior or superior. For it is the foundation that ultimately determines the performance of everything associated with that foundation. The line conditioners do a fabulous job of cleansing, filtering, purifying, and/or conditioning the universally noisy AC coming in from the street while the racking system has the potential to drastically further cleanse/purify the distorted electrical current including input signal inside the line condtioners and components. Such that they are now able to perform far closer to their optimal performance potentials rather than closer to their base potentials. Presumably this is accomplished by drastically lowering a playback system's noise floor. Bearing in mind that not all line conditioners are created equal nor are all racking systems nor are all designs or executions. For example. In my case, the line conditioners out-of-the-box do a fabulous job by improving the overall level of musicality. Aquiring superior line conditioners alone can usually catapult performance over most other playback systems. But when mounted into my rack, I venture their level of improvement increases about 4 or even 5 fold (no way to measure such things). Just as it does for the source and amps.

I noticed that Bobvin provided a picture of his beautiful listening room and it's actually one of my favorites from a visual perspective. I figure if a picture is worth a thousand words, then an in-room recording must be worth a thousand pictures, right? So below I give a glimpse of what a superior foundation can do for even the most humble but hopefully well-thought-out playback system.

What would I suggest you do? If all-out performance is the name of your game, I suggest doing the opposite of what everybody else is doing by turning your focus toward electrical and mechanical energy management as though THEY are the foundation of your playback system (because they are) and start treating your speakers and components and room as accessories (because they are). Study the HRS racking system you have. Avoid any token efforts by studying HRS' philosophies and strategies and try to engage their mindset by absolutely maximizing any potential minimums, etc. If after that the HRS rack still does not blow you away from a musical perspective, then consider a competing rack or perhaps one employing a different/better strategy. But that's me.

Did you have your electric company install a transformer on your property? I was thinking about trying to run everything from a Tesla Powerwall but can’t find anything suggesting it would be an improvement. I’m too lazy to achieve all-out performance beyond what a few boxes can provide unfortunately.

 

[Barry2013]

Well I do like orange things. Are there any Vitus dealers in the US?

Hi Katzky
The Vitus Audio web site lists three
Cake Audio
Stellar Home Audio
United Home Audio
Not sure where they are but but just Google them.
Good luck

 

[Skanda]

Did you have your electric company install a transformer on your property? I was thinking about trying to run everything from a Tesla Powerwall but can’t find anything suggesting it would be an improvement. I’m too lazy to achieve all-out performance beyond what a few boxes can provide unfortunately.

I use a torus avr...the largest of their non wall/ground mounted ones. it was a big help to me in my nyc apartment because they don't put enough outlets in the apartments here and electrician work is super expensive. i was quoted $800 for them to put a bunch of holes in my wall to figure out if they can put in 20amp outlets...then you have all the issues with the whole building using electricity etc.

so the torus for me was practical and i did get a sound benefit and interestingly i also got a little visual benefit on my tv image. color me surprised. now prior to buying the avr i had googled around a bunch and i liked the topology of it (its just a massive transformer) and its ability to deliver tons of current, something that seemed to be a limitation for a bunch of power conditioners in my budget. the reviews were overwhelmingly positive and some said it was even better than an amp upgrade.

my personal take: it works, it does what it does well, and it did improve the sound by lowering the noise floor. i think the reviews were overstating the difference the torus made but everyone's system and powergrid etc are different. i can't not use the torus due to the outlet issue to begin with so for me it was a very worthwhile purchase plus i have the mental relief of knowing that i'm doing something about the power coming in to my system. i would rec it as a purchase because it works well and in the context of the gear is not crazy expensive. i personally have gotten better/more impactful results from nice power cables and i'm not a huge cable guy. just my $0.02

 

[Lee]

Purchased the A5s today will be delivered in a few weeks. Now I need an amplifier.

Congratulations! That is a terrific choice.

 

[Skanda]

yes, forgot to mention, congratulations on the speakers!
i'd be really curious to read your demo experience on a5 vs hailey 2.2

 

[stehno]

Did you have your electric company install a transformer on your property? I was thinking about trying to run everything from a Tesla Powerwall but can’t find anything suggesting it would be an improvement. I’m too lazy to achieve all-out performance beyond what a few boxes can provide unfortunately.

No my electric co. did not install a transformer on my property. Everything I've done or had done electrically starts at the service panel.

BTW, I'm too lazy as well. That's why I gave you the lazy man's errr ummm smart man's strategy.

 

[KeithR]

I'd rather step up to Magico M series with a $1000 rack. Racks are poor investments and hard to sell/trade.

 

[TDX]

Rack works but M2 or M3 is much bigger (huge) noticeable upgrade.

I'd rather step up to Magico M series with a $1000 rack. Racks are poor investments and hard to sell/trade.

 

[stehno]

I'd rather step up to Magico M series with a $1000 rack. Racks are poor investments and hard to sell/trade.

After all, Stereophile tells you racks are just an accessory, so it must be true. Right?

Too funny. Especially when you make no mention of any rack's performance potentials.