New System Decisions

[Katzky]

My hifi system is currently dCS Rossini + Naim amplification + Naim speakers on Quadrispire SVT rack. Decided to move away from Naim due to overall complexity, maintenance, and space requirements. Trying to stick to a budget on the new system which tentatively includes

HRS SXR five shelf rack with E1 & S3 bases ($20k)
Diablo 300 ($18k)
Magico S5 MkII ($42k)

However.... the Humboldt exists.

I could get the Humboldt + Wilson Sabrina X (or used Magico S3 MkII) + HRS SXR amp stand with S3 base for about the same price.

Is the $20k rack overkill in the context of a $100k system?

What would you do? Unfortunately my location prevents any demos so I’m buying blind (deaf really).

 

[Barry2013]

My hifi system is currently dCS Rossini + Naim amplification + Naim speakers on Quadrispire SVT rack. Decided to move away from Naim due to overall complexity, maintenance, and space requirements. Trying to stick to a budget on the new system which tentatively includes

HRS SXR five shelf rack with E1 & S3 bases ($20k)
Diablo 300 ($18k)
Magico S5 MkII ($42k)

However.... the Humboldt exists.

I could get the Humboldt + Wilson Sabrina X (or used Magico S3 MkII) + HRS SXR amp stand with S3 base for about the same price.

Is the $20k rack overkill in the context of a $100k system?

What would you do? Unfortunately my location prevents any demos so I’m buying blind (deaf really).

I had the same experience a few years ago having gone all the way up up to the Naim 500/552 and I have never regretted the move.
Bought a Vitus 025 SIA which sounded so much more sophisticated and cut the box count by 3 so cabling became a lot less complicated. Upgraded to the Vitus 030 a little while ago and very satisfied with it.
I have not heard the Humboldt so cannot compare it with the Vitus, but it has attacted much favourable comment which is generally a good guide providing the sound character meets your tastes.
Yes IME a $20k rack is overkill. I would look for a good used one.
I have not been impressed by the Magico speakers I have heard. I believe YGs are a much better buy and with due diligence are a good used buy. You don't indicate how big your room is which is a crucial consideration but if it is no more than about 20x12 the Carmel 2 would work very well. Anything larger would need a pair of Haileys.
IME it is always a good idea to look for brands that hold their value and can be serviced in the largely unlikely event of it being needed. Once we get hooked on this hobby we keep upgrading and it does help if what you have holds its value well

 

[Katzky]

I had the same experience a few years ago having gone all the way up up to the Naim 500/552 and I have never regretted the move.
Bought a Vitus 025 SIA which sounded so much more sophisticated and cut the box count by 3 so cabling became a lot less complicated. Upgraded to the Vitus 030 a little while ago and very satisfied with it.
I have not heard the Humboldt so cannot compare it with the Vitus, but it has attacted much favourable comment which is generally a good guide providing the sound character meets your tastes.
Yes IME a $20k rack is overkill. I would look for a good used one.
I have not been impressed by the Magico speakers I have heard. I believe YGs are a much better buy and with due diligence are a good used buy. You don't indicate how big your room is which is a crucial consideration but if it is no more than about 20x12 the Carmel 2 would work very well. Anything larger would need a pair of Haileys.
IME it is always a good idea to look for brands that hold their value and can be serviced in the largely unlikely event of it being needed. Once we get hooked on this hobby we keep upgrading and it does help if what you have holds its value well

My room is 25 x 15+ with 18-20 foot ceilings. In total volume its fairly large. It’s not a dedicated room so I can’t do any meaningful acoustic treatments. My current speakers were inexpensive and a bit small but still sound great in the room. At this point it feels like they’re holding back my source.

I wanted Rockports but they’re too deep to fit where I need to place them. Magico is a shallower profile and I prefer the aesthetic vs Wilson. Only heard Magico once at RMAF in 2013. Nice thing is my speakers can have 3-5 feet from back and side walls so plenty of options. I’ll check out the YG.

what didn’t you like about Magicos?

 

[Ron Resnick]

My hifi system is currently dCS Rossini + Naim amplification + Naim speakers on Quadrispire SVT rack. Decided to move away from Naim due to overall complexity, maintenance, and space requirements. Trying to stick to a budget on the new system which tentatively includes

HRS SXR five shelf rack with E1 & S3 bases ($20k)
Diablo 300 ($18k)
Magico S5 MkII ($42k)

However.... the Humboldt exists.

I could get the Humboldt + Wilson Sabrina X (or used Magico S3 MkII) + HRS SXR amp stand with S3 base for about the same price.

Is the $20k rack overkill in the context of a $100k system?

What would you do? Unfortunately my location prevents any demos so I’m buying blind (deaf really).

All of this is personal preference -- if you like Magico, I totally respect that. Why not explore some other brands or other types of loudspeakers?

Some people spend as much money on cables as they spend on the rest of their systems.

 

[Barry2013]

My room is 25 x 15+ with 18-20 foot ceilings. In total volume its fairly large. It’s not a dedicated room so I can’t do any meaningful acoustic treatments. My current speakers were inexpensive and a bit small but still sound great in the room. At this point it feels like they’re holding back my source.

I wanted Rockports but they’re too deep to fit where I need to place them. Magico is a shallower profile and I prefer the aesthetic vs Wilson. Only heard Magico once at RMAF in 2013. Nice thing is my speakers can have 3-5 feet from back and side walls so plenty of options. I’ll check out the YG.

what didn’t you like about Magicos?

Thanks for getting back to me.
By European standards your room is large, but well proportioned so with the right equipment you will be able to get good sound quality. I don't see room treatment as an immediate priority.
I was attracted to Magico speakers about 8 years ago when I was looking to upgrade my loudspeakers. The S1s and S3s were the ones I looked at and I heard them both on a number of occasions. They are both capable speakers, but I found they were not particularly good at reproducing the sounds and character of different instruments so didn't buy them despite the good reactions to them.
I then discovered YG Acoustics which were getting very good reviews in the hifi press from the likes of Neil Gader. I made my first visit to Munich to hear the Carmels. On my first visit to their demo room the much lager Anats were playing and the sound was revelatory. I arranged to hear the Carmels later that day and was sold on them. I subsequently found a pair of lightlu used Carmels and went on from there.
I have to say that I also like the looks of YG speakers which is obviously a personal preference, but I find their sound and build quality to be oustanding. As you may know the cabinets are CNC machined aircraft grade aluminium, very inert, and they reproduce accurately whatever signal is fed to them. Differences in the character of the partnering equipment are readily apparent. I did not find this with the Magicos I have heard. About a couple of years ago I heard the Magico A3s at a dealer demo partnered with high end valve amplification, Bartok DAC and a Brinkman turntable. Again not a poor sound at their price point but not outstanding.
The YG Haileys would be a better choice for your room than the Carmels. I have heard them with different equipment on a number of occasions and they have always impressed me. Obviously personal preferences play an important part in our choices but all the reviews I have read speak very highly of them.
I hope that is helpful to your search. Can I also add that it is good idea to allow for good quality cables in your budget. They do make a difference as I am sure you already know.

 

[Solypsa]

The easier to drive the speakers are the better right ( all else being similar)? I have heard the somewhat high efficiency Deadalus speakers at a few clients homes and they offer a lot. Really pretty wood finish too if that is your thing...

Daedalus Audio | Daedalus Audio Speakers | Custom Speakers

Welcome to Daedalus Audio. We build bespoke high-efficiency audio speakers for reference lifestyle audio. Our handcrafted real wood speakers are among the best in the world.

www.daedalusaudio.com

 

[Mdp632]

If you are in Europe/UK consider Artesania racks over HRS. Being built in Spain, better value than HRS.

I also give a thumbs up to the Humboldt + YG combo. The NA Audionet distributor is also a YG dealer and this combo sounds great (To me)

Btw, YG is coming out with a new line of speakers called the Peak Series. Not sure of the pricing or details as it was just teased in the latest issue of TAS.

It is my understanding that the Peak series is a direct competitor to Magico A series.

That said, , the current Hailey 2.2 would compete directly against the Magico S5mk2.

 

[TDX]

No issue with magico, I have the same, very good speakers. Rack is a bit too much because I’d rather spend more on the amplifier. If you prefer integrated, have a look Pilium, I have their pre and amp to drive my S5, you can use their Leonidas integrated amp, a monster amp.

 

[scot]

Hi barry2013

You asked if the HRS rack was overkill. In my opinion, it is not. As long as it’s in the budget, I think it’s an important piece of kit for any system. There seems to be two name brands of audio rack manufacturers that are considered to be the best performing racks. One of them are HRS and the other, which if I were you I would strongly consider, is Critical Mass Systems. As you probably know, CMS racks have 3 levels of “ filters” for each shelf.

I just recently bought a new turntable and I wanted a really good stable foundation to put it on. I bought a 3 level QXK (their middle model) CMS rack. Since the table will obviously sit on the top shelf, I bought their best “filter” for the top. For the two lower shelves I bought their more basic shelves which still offer excellent performance.

The reason I feel that a great rack is not overkill is because no matter what you ever put on that rack, whether now or if you upgrade components in the future, you’ll always get the benefits of what that rack does. Vibration control is very important and we’re just realizing just how important it is.

The other benefit of a great rack is, if you buy a better preamp, you get a better preamp. If you buy a better dac, you get a better dac. However, if you buy a better rack, ALL of your components sounds better. You’ll have that rack forever. My philosophy has always been, buy the best thing you can afford. Audiophiles are always upgrading.

The other item you want to consider, is CMS Center Stage footers. You put a set of 4 of them under a component and after 1-2 weeks they will stabilize and “settle in” and you will not believe the level of improvement they provide. IMHO, they are a must have product. The cool thing is, they will work on any rack. Beware, they are expensive, their best ones (1.5’s) sell for $795.00 each! If you can’t afford them, don’t try them. Once you’ve heard what they are capable of doing, there’s no going back. They are stupid expensive, but worth it.

Regarding speakers, check out an online audio website called audiobacon.net. Read the review of the Gershman Grand Avante Garde speakers. The reviewer thought they were the best sounding floor standing speakers he’s ever heard. Here’s a guy who goes to many of the shows (remember those) and has heard hundreds of speakers and he gave them the website’s highest award. The size should be perfect for your room. The retail price is $15,000.00 per pair. Before you buy anything, you might want to see if you can find a dealer so you can audition them.

The owner of the website is Jay Luong. I’ve found him to be very careful about his opinions on whatever he listens to. He’s not the type of reviewer who gives everything a rave review like some of these reviewers. If anything, he’s pretty conservative and over the years I’ve learned to trust his judgement. I would try to find a dealer and take a listen to them if possible. Good luck with whatever you choose. Take care.

Best regards
Scot

 

[thomask]

Your room is slightly smaller than mine but about same.

Most modern speakers do need sound proofing, that is, they do not work well in lively environment.

I found out that Altec A7 worked well in rather lively room.

It can be driven well by modest power tube amp.

If you look up Ebay, you may be able to find seller who offer audition in their room.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Lee]

A less expensive option than a fancy rack is a good solid wood one with high quality isolation devices under the components. That also works very well and frees up money for better gear.

 

[Bobvin]

All of this is personal preference -- if you like Magico, I totally respect that. Why not explore some other brands or other types of loudspeakers?

I second this recommendation. Magico certainly worthy contenders, but I have had good fortune now to hear three completely different types of speakers in my room within the last 6 weeks. Diesis have all the magic I remember from my first exposure to them a couple years back, the Alsyvox are world class by all measures and equal to all the praise they’ve received, and the Bayz are insanely cool speakers visually and sonically.

The YG‘s, to my knowledge and as have been reported on this forum, need some stout amplification. Also reported here is the Humbolt can run out of gas so I’d investigate its suitability to something like the YGs. The Humbolt is supposed to be pretty amazing sonically — I have yet to hear one.

Lee mentions a good stout wood rack, augment with footers or maybe put an HRS base on the shelf. A stout rack is essential, but in my opinion a rack won’t make a poor sounding system into a good one. Get the best components you can afford and racks, footers, etc are tweaks to tease out the last bit of goodness.

In my own system I too use a Rossini DAC at this time, and the Pilium kit can drive anything. I have Bayz Courante 2.0 running-in currently. I wasn’t sure about omni-directional in my room but the sound is really fantastic (and they’re not fully run in; placement is easy but the last bit of tweaking will get the bass best integrated to the room.) Plus the Bayz are unique looking… but not too far out.

 

[Katzky]

All of this is personal preference -- if you like Magico, I totally respect that. Why not explore some other brands or other types of loudspeakers?

Some people spend as much money on cables as they spend on the rest of their systems.

The Magico choice is primarily due to “local” dealer only 600 Mike’s away from me, aesthetics, sealed design, size, and reputation. My local dealer sells Wilson & Rockport which are both too deep to comfortably (avoid divorce) fit in our room.

Was going to get ProAc K6 Signature prior to planning to leaving my cult. At this level I’m sure they’re all great since we lack exposure to anything other than Naim Ovators. Also... the Magico can be ordered in orange which is a big plus.

About the cables... was that merely a statement of fact or a suggestion? I already have reference level cables for the entire system so that’s not part of my budget. Of course Ill probably need to make some adjustments but that’s for next year.

Any speakers youve experienced good match with Diablo 300 and Humboldt?

 

[Katzky]

A less expensive option than a fancy rack is a good solid wood one with high quality isolation devices under the components. That also works very well and frees up money for better gear.

Want to go to integrated and haven’t heard of one better than Humboldt. The rack is located immediately behind the right speaker so my thinking is getting best rack I can would be a significant benefit. I’m open to other options and greatly prefer buying preowned equipment when possible. I have Rossini & clock so don’t think source needs more attention other than the Innuos I’m also adding.

What would you suggest to allocate the $10k savings?

 

[Katzky]

I had the same experience a few years ago having gone all the way up up to the Naim 500/552 and I have never regretted the move.
Bought a Vitus 025 SIA which sounded so much more sophisticated and cut the box count by 3 so cabling became a lot less complicated. Upgraded to the Vitus 030 a little while ago and very satisfied with it.
I have not heard the Humboldt so cannot compare it with the Vitus, but it has attacted much favourable comment which is generally a good guide providing the sound character meets your tastes.
Yes IME a $20k rack is overkill. I would look for a good used one.
I have not been impressed by the Magico speakers I have heard. I believe YGs are a much better buy and with due diligence are a good used buy. You don't indicate how big your room is which is a crucial consideration but if it is no more than about 20x12 the Carmel 2 would work very well. Anything larger would need a pair of Haileys.
IME it is always a good idea to look for brands that hold their value and can be serviced in the largely unlikely event of it being needed. Once we get hooked on this hobby we keep upgrading and it does help if what you have holds its value well

Several people have move from 500 to Vitus. The SIA 30 is also an option I’ll examine.

 

[GSOphile]

I have had S3 MkIIs driven by a Diablo 300 for several years and think they are an excellent match. I listen to mostly classical and jazz. The Humboldt is in a different class. I recently heard A5s driven by the latest Dag Progression pre/stereo amp and was very impressed. In the US, the A5s are a screaming bargain IMO.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Several people have move from 500 to Vitus. The SIA 30 is also an option I’ll examine.

Welcome Katzky to wbf.

 

[Katzky]

Hi barry2013

You asked if the HRS rack was overkill. In my opinion, it is not. As long as it’s in the budget, I think it’s an important piece of kit for any system. There seems to be two name brands of audio rack manufacturers that are considered to be the best performing racks. One of them are HRS and the other, which if I were you I would strongly consider, is Critical Mass Systems. As you probably know, CMS racks have 3 levels of “ filters” for each shelf.

I just recently bought a new turntable and I wanted a really good stable foundation to put it on. I bought a 3 level QXK (their middle model) CMS rack. Since the table will obviously sit on the top shelf, I bought their best “filter” for the top. For the two lower shelves I bought their more basic shelves which still offer excellent performance.

The reason I feel that a great rack is not overkill is because no matter what you ever put on that rack, whether now or if you upgrade components in the future, you’ll always get the benefits of what that rack does. Vibration control is very important and we’re just realizing just how important it is.

The other benefit of a great rack is, if you buy a better preamp, you get a better preamp. If you buy a better dac, you get a better dac. However, if you buy a better rack, ALL of your components sounds better. You’ll have that rack forever. My philosophy has always been, buy the best thing you can afford. Audiophiles are always upgrading.

The other item you want to consider, is CMS Center Stage footers. You put a set of 4 of them under a component and after 1-2 weeks they will stabilize and “settle in” and you will not believe the level of improvement they provide. IMHO, they are a must have product. The cool thing is, they will work on any rack. Beware, they are expensive, their best ones (1.5’s) sell for $795.00 each! If you can’t afford them, don’t try them. Once you’ve heard what they are capable of doing, there’s no going back. They are stupid expensive, but worth it.

Regarding speakers, check out an online audio website called audiobacon.net. Read the review of the Gershman Grand Avante Garde speakers. The reviewer thought they were the best sounding floor standing speakers he’s ever heard. Here’s a guy who goes to many of the shows (remember those) and has heard hundreds of speakers and he gave them the website’s highest award. The size should be perfect for your room. The retail price is $15,000.00 per pair. Before you buy anything, you might want to see if you can find a dealer so you can audition them.

The owner of the website is Jay Luong. I’ve found him to be very careful about his opinions on whatever he listens to. He’s not the type of reviewer who gives everything a rave review like some of these reviewers. If anything, he’s pretty conservative and over the years I’ve learned to trust his judgement. I would try to find a dealer and take a listen to them if possible. Good luck with whatever you choose. Take care.

Best regards
Scot

That was my line of thought on the $20k rack; it won’t break or become obsolete. My rack needs to be located immediately behind my right speaker so getting that last couple of bits of resolution from my dac needs to be as free from vibrations as possible. My neighbor is an HRS dealer so I’d only consider that brand. Not that I’m getting a discount or anything....

Unfortunately my health prevents any travel or even leaving my home so can’t hear many options.

 

[Solypsa]

if you got active speakers the rack could largely disappear...

 

[Katzky]

I have had S3 MkIIs driven by a Diablo 300 for several years and think they are an excellent match. I listen to mostly classical and jazz. The Humboldt is in a different class. I recently heard A5s driven by the latest Dag Progression pre/stereo amp and was very impressed. In the US, the A5s are a screaming bargain IMO.

I’m calling dealer tomorrow re A5 vs S5.