New speakers, new problem - advise please

[Tim F]

Hi all,

I have a system which was superb for older vinyl records. Those mastered all in analogue. With new speakers the sound of vocals isn’t as realistic, but everything else is alround better. How do I get the more realistic vocals back?

Moon 641
Gold note P10 and PSU 10
Rega P10 with their own high end cart.
Speakers:
Were - Spendor Classic 1/2
Now - Boressen Z2

I am thinking of going with a valve phono pre. The other thing that I’ve read is the P10 is a light sounding deck, no colouration. Sometimes described as more digital with their own carts.

What would you do? UK based and budget around £3k to 5K. Prefer to buy second hand / ex demo so more expensive (rrp) kit will be in range. A range of price options is welcome, but no prices way above this.
Thanks !

 

[Kofi Baffour]

Hi all,

I have a system which was superb for older vinyl records. Those mastered all in analogue. With new speakers the sound of vocals isn’t as realistic, but everything else is alround better. How do I get the more realistic vocals back?

Moon 641
Gold note P10 and PSU 10
Rega P10 with their own high end cart.
Speakers:
Were - Spendor Classic 1/2
Now - Boressen Z2

I am thinking of going with a valve phono pre. The other thing that I’ve read is the P10 is a light sounding deck, no colouration. Sometimes described as more digital with their own carts.

What would you do? UK based and budget around £3k to 5K. Prefer to buy second hand / ex demo so more expensive (rrp) kit will be in range. A range of price options is welcome, but no prices way above this.
Thanks !

so why are you blaming anything other than the speakers as those are the new component in your setup. Have you done any RTA in your room. I reckon you have a grand canyon dip in the harmonic region of vocals from 900Hz to 3kHz.

Borresen speakers I've heard all sounded like they had no attack, bite or pop and snap to vocal presentation.
Before wasting money buying something to fix an issue that is clearly the speakers, do an RTA of your room with REW and a measurement mic. Get the UMIK-1 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/miniDSP-Omni-Directional-Measurement-Calibrated-Microphone/dp/B00N4Q25R8

 

[Gregm]

Yes, what @Kofi Baffour said .
And don't worry, you'll find the solution! Keep in mind that Boressens and Spendors are very differently voiced...

After you measure, try varying speaker placement and ultimately, a different amp on the new speakers. Good luck

 

[ecwl]

It is very difficult to know whether the issue is a difference in frequency response or directivity pattern of the Zorrensen vs the Spendor that is ultimately causing OP’s current issue. And as others have said, without measurements, very hard to say. The problem usually is that the old speakers are gone so you can’t measure the Spendor to compare.

Based on manufacturer’s specification, the Spendor goes deeper to 30Hz compared to the Borrensen’s 40Hz. So if that is the issue, adding an appropriately integrated subwoofer(s) for the very low frequency would improve the frequency response balance and possibly improve the realism of the vocals.

Alternatively as everyone else has said, if the directivity pattern and frequency response of the speakers are different above 40Hz, moving the speaker position or often simply toeing in and out the speakers (rotating the speakers on axis to point towards or away from your ears) can restore a better frequency response at the listening position and improve the realism of the vocals.

Even without the ability to go back to measure the Spendor, all the above options are usually much easier to accomplish with an RTA that can measure. Nowadays, you can buy very cheap calibrated microphones and very cheap software so you can plug the microphone into your phone/tablet/laptop to get good RTA measurements to guide adjustments.

If all this sound too daunting, one can hire experts like Jim Smith to move your speakers for you to optimize the sound. But if you have no room/option to move the speakers, then OP is in big trouble. Since we can’t change the laws of physics.

 

[dhansak79]

I’ve been running the Spendor Classic 1/2 for some time now, and they’ve consistently delivered a vivid, fluid, and lifelike performance, especially with well-mastered vinyl. Vocals have a natural bloom, instruments decay with realism, and the presentation feels emotionally grounded. It’s a speaker that doesn’t try to impress; it simply lets the music speak. When I added the Moon 641 about a year ago, the pairing just worked, immediate synergy, no second-guessing.

Recently, I picked up a pair of Børresen Z2s at a significant discount. I wasn’t actively seeking an upgrade, just curious to hear what they might offer. Technically, they’re very capable, fast, detailed, and spatially expansive. But in my system, they didn’t gel. Vocals sounded boxed-in and nasal, and even my partner remarked that people on TV sounded like they had a cold. The emotional connection was gone.

After a few weeks of trying to dial things in, I swapped the Spendors back in on Saturday night. Instantly, the magic returned. It was a reminder that synergy isn’t something you can engineer through specifications alone. The system wasn’t broken — it was already doing exactly what I wanted. The Børresens may well shine in other setups, but in mine, they disrupted a balance that had taken years to build.

I suspect the voicing of the Spendors is simply better suited to the music I love: disco, soul, jazz, and funk from the 70s and beyond. There’s a warmth and tonal completeness that brings these recordings to life in a way that more analytical designs often miss.

Tim and I spent a week exploring turntables, cartridges, and phono stages, trying to reclaim the magic that had vanished with the speaker swap. But ultimately, it wasn’t the front end that needed changing, it was the speakers. The Børresens took the system in a direction I don’t enjoy. Sometimes the best move is to step back and recognise when you’re already happy.

And I don’t think this can be measured. The issue wasn’t just frequency response, it was something more elusive: the way the sound filled the room, the way it projected toward the listener. Difficult to describe, but unmistakable when you hear it.

Thanks to those who replied, the money comes back into my pocket and the journey continues!

 

[dhansak79]

Postscript for the emotionally derailed and spec-sheet obsessed

Naturally, after swapping the Spendors back in and rediscovering musical joy, I did what any rational hi-fi enthusiast would do: I spent the next five days questioning every other component in the chain, re-reading cartridge loading manuals, and wondering if my tonearm geometry was somehow responsible for the existential collapse of vocal realism.

I even considered whether the Børresens might sound better if I moved house.

But alas, no amount of toe-in, cable elevation, or spiritual cleansing could make them sound less like a nasal hologram. The Spendors, meanwhile, just sat there: smug, understated, and quietly magnificent.

Moral of the story: if your partner says the TV sounds like it has a cold, trust her. She’s probably right.

 

[dhansak79]

Interesting.....

Børresen X3 Floorstanding Speaker Review

Børresen X3 Floorstanding

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

______________________

Summary:
The BØRRESEN X3 speaker review highlights its premium design and sound performance, but notes a significant mid-range deficiency. While it excels in bass punch and soundstage precision, its high price tag and certain tonal imbalances may not appeal to all audiophiles.

Highlights

• Linear highs and impressive imaging make for a captivating listening experience.
• Size and Design: Stands 51 inches tall, available in gloss white or black, with a premium look.
• Pricey Investment: Priced at $11,000 per pair, it’s a luxury choice for audiophiles.
• Bass Performance: Punchy bass response centered around 80Hz, but lacks depth below 50Hz. However, this note is high-Q which means that it has a high ringing factor that takes time to diminish compared to other speakers.
• Mid-Range Flaw: Notable hole in the mid-range frequencies affects overall tonal balance.
• Listening Position Matters: While various positions were tried, optimal sound was achieved by pointing speakers toward same side shoulders - per mfg spec - and placing off the wall ~60 cm.
• Measurement Consistency: Both speakers measured similarly, indicating consistent performance despite subjective tonal criticisms.

 

[Bartolo1]

Rega P10 with their own high end cart.

I had a P8 and then a P10 and I never really enjoyed vinyl playback with them. Too 'analytical' or too "revealing" . . . Not "musical" enough compared to my vinyl playback. I went in a different direction and sold off the Rega P10 and enjoy vinyl much more now. I liked the idea of the Rega system being pretty foolproof setup-wise, but I just did not get on with their sound.

More recently I heard a Rega Naiad vs. a Linn LP-12 Klimax. Now the Linn is twice as expensive but the Rega character I am not a fan of came through with the Naiad as well. That LP-12 was so much more "musical" in the a vs b comparison.

Certainly if you liked the P10 in the past and then changed speakers and no longer like it, it is hard to point the finger at the P10. But maybe now you're just hearing more of the P10's character. I do believe in "systems" not just "components."

 

[dhansak79]

I am considering going into Tannoy territory.

 

[Kofi Baffour]

Interesting.....

Børresen X3 Floorstanding Speaker Review

Børresen X3 Floorstanding

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

______________________

Summary:
The BØRRESEN X3 speaker review highlights its premium design and sound performance, but notes a significant mid-range deficiency. While it excels in bass punch and soundstage precision, its high price tag and certain tonal imbalances may not appeal to all audiophiles.

Highlights

• Linear highs and impressive imaging make for a captivating listening experience.
• Size and Design: Stands 51 inches tall, available in gloss white or black, with a premium look.
• Pricey Investment: Priced at $11,000 per pair, it’s a luxury choice for audiophiles.
• Bass Performance: Punchy bass response centered around 80Hz, but lacks depth below 50Hz. However, this note is high-Q which means that it has a high ringing factor that takes time to diminish compared to other speakers.
• Mid-Range Flaw: Notable hole in the mid-range frequencies affects overall tonal balance.
• Listening Position Matters: While various positions were tried, optimal sound was achieved by pointing speakers toward same side shoulders - per mfg spec - and placing off the wall ~60 cm.
• Measurement Consistency: Both speakers measured similarly, indicating consistent performance despite subjective tonal criticisms.

yup that is a BØRRESEN X3 alright. Pretty spot on review that eerily is bang on with how I perceived any Borresen I have heard. Just a lack of presence and snap
Seems like an in house decision to voice them that way but that doesn't work with how I want music to sound. I might have to read some of his reviews. Seems pretty interesting. I hope he has got his hands on the V10 Master Edition MoFi Sourcepoint. Loved them at Munich High End and Audio Advice Live more than any speaker there. Too grand for my space though

 

[thedudeabides]

I am considering going into Tannoy territory.

If you were / are happy with your system sound, why? I know, stupid question.

 

[dhansak79]

Yes, I’m eyeing Tannoy. It started innocently enough with a few wistful glances at Turnberrys and a casual scroll through second-hand listings. Now I’m wondering whether I need a larger lounge or just a stronger constitution.

Am I happy with the Spendors? Absolutely. But happiness in hi-fi is like a trifle at a village fête. It looks promising, collapses under scrutiny, and someone always insists it needs more sherry. So here I am, weighing up whether a pair of Cheviots might bring more vocal intimacy or simply add another chapter to my memoir, Confessions of a Serial Upgrader.

Still, it’s cheaper than therapy and marginally more respectable than collecting antique surgical instruments.

 

[dhansak79]

A search for the word 'upgrade' on the forum tells me why many of us are here and what the hobby is about - the pursuit of ever better and more enjoyable music listening.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

A search for the word 'upgrade' on the forum tells me why many of us are here and what the hobby is about - the pursuit of ever better and more enjoyable music listening.

Agree though I have been quite content for a number of years, until I read this post that is

 

[Tangram]

Hi all,

I have a system which was superb for older vinyl records. Those mastered all in analogue. With new speakers the sound of vocals isn’t as realistic, but everything else is alround better. How do I get the more realistic vocals back?

Moon 641
Gold note P10 and PSU 10
Rega P10 with their own high end cart.
Speakers:
Were - Spendor Classic 1/2
Now - Boressen Z2

I am thinking of going with a valve phono pre. The other thing that I’ve read is the P10 is a light sounding deck, no colouration. Sometimes described as more digital with their own carts.

What would you do? UK based and budget around £3k to 5K. Prefer to buy second hand / ex demo so more expensive (rrp) kit will be in range. A range of price options is welcome, but no prices way above this.
Thanks !

How long have you had your new speakers?

 

[dhansak79]

How long have you had your new speakers?

They were on a trial - they are going back so nothing lost.

The've been in here for a week and a half now with a few full days of proper listening. They are an ex-demo pair so no run-in issues etc (they've had hundreds of hours of use).

 

[dhansak79]

How long have you had your new speakers?

By the way, just looked at your signature - some kit in there that I'd love to hear!

 

[adrianywu]

The Borresen is a much narrower speaker than the Spendor. Therefore, mid-range frequencies radiate to the back and get reflected back causing cancellation. (typically, a baffle needs to be at least 2/3 of the wavelength of a frequency to stop the sound from going around it). This might be the reason for the suck out of the midrange. There could also be cancellation from the first reflection off the side walls, depending on how close the speakers are from the walls. Measuring the frequency response at the listening position will help you determine how best to remedy this situation. You might need to add deflection at the first reflection points to scatter the sound waves, and use absorption on the back wall.

 

[thedudeabides]

A search for the word 'upgrade' on the forum tells me why many of us are here and what the hobby is about - the pursuit of ever better and more enjoyable music listening.

Sometimes that's true. Other times, it's about the"chase" after some imagined pursuit of something that rationally does not exist. On the mild side, it's a minor form of physcosis. In more severe cases, it morphs into OCD. And it is no longer about a more enjoyable musical listening experience but the gear.

 

[dhansak79]

I guess the existential question we are all trying to answer is 'What's best?'