Nat Audio - giant killers?

May 30, 2010
13,964
42
48
Portugal
Custom indirect speaker protection circuit ?
Crowbar arrangement with thyristor that melts a fuse that is switched into the amp power cord, by vaporising the fuse the amp is off and no damage should occur. The detection of souch a failure can be done by placing a hall effect sensor on the input of the ribbons.
Just an idea...
Most of the time the energy stored in the capacitors of the amplifier is enough to destroy the panel. Quad ESL63 electrostatics had a crowbar arrangement with a thyristor that sometimes fused the output transistors of the offending amplifier ... :)
 

spiritofmusic

Member Sponsor
Jun 13, 2013
6,244
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E. England
This forum always seems divided by those who think all audio/setup/synergy/room conundrums have a simple solution, and if that solution doesn’t work, try another.
And those who chime in with words of wisdom. Thanks Micro.
The way forward here would be home trial of said Graz Duettas, with a SS amp like Parasound to a/b v my NATs.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
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Beverly Hills, CA
The old Nat distributor from Holland, who put NAT on the map drove his infinity (not the Genesis but the 201 or 202 or so) with NAT magma. I did not like it, thought it was slow and under driven. That was three years ago though, had forgotten about it.
That is very interesting! Are you sure it was not a Genesis 200? (Infinity made the Betas but I not recall Infinity making a Genesis 200 type of system.)

What amps would you today want to try on that speaker system?
 

GMKF

VIP/Donor
Aug 15, 2017
320
3
18
Munich
Quad ESL63 electrostatics had a crowbar arrangement with a thyristor that sometimes fused the output transistors of the offending amplifier ... :)
But we dont wan't glass parts of a fused tube sticking somewhere insinde Rons body do we?

Via NAT's website "high capacitance in power supply resulting to over 500joules of energy storage"
Thats enough to fry a ribbon :p
 

spiritofmusic

Member Sponsor
Jun 13, 2013
6,244
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E. England
Well I tripped on my carpet, landed thigh down on my Nat SET and ended up needing minor surgery to remove multiple shards of 211 tube from my leg.
No ****!
So if Ron falls foul of this, I can say I was there first.
 

spiritofmusic

Member Sponsor
Jun 13, 2013
6,244
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E. England
Two months before I started packing for my move, Jan 2016.
Peter was en route from Somerset to London with a Magnetostat for demo.
I woke up to go over and put my tube amps on, made a call, went over to adjust the volume, and <WHOOPS!> took a little dive into
my amp.
Demo aborted, but Peter charitably took pity on me, and carted the amp off to fix it.
 

morricab

Active Member
Apr 25, 2014
2,302
8
38
Switzerland
Only if you are measuring the speaker sensitivity in anechoic conditions. However planar manufacturers mostly lists an "equivalent" specification of sensitivity, that is taken at the a "typical" listening distance in a "typical" room. Remember that most planar manufacturers do not own or use large anechoic chambers.
True story: When measured SPL of my Acoustats the level was only down 1db compared to the immediate ftint of the speaker. That was one channel driven. In a real room there is very little drop off with distance for a large planar linesource.

You can take the one meter SPL to hold steady out to 3-4 meters I have found (my listening position was 3.5 meters). Big Kronzillas drove them beautifully and even the VA350 did a cracking job.
 

spiritofmusic

Member Sponsor
Jun 13, 2013
6,244
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I listen at 4.5m distance.
Duettas would be 3m to front wall.
 

morricab

Active Member
Apr 25, 2014
2,302
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38
Switzerland
That is very interesting! Are you sure it was not a Genesis 200? (Infinity made the Betas but I not recall Infinity making a Genesis 200 type of system.)

What amps would you today want to try on that speaker system?
You are right Ron, Genesis made the 200. Infinity made Betas (I owned a set), Gammas, Deltas, Sigmas, Epsilons and Omegas as well as the mighty IRS V and the 4 box RS I, IIB, 4.5 etc.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
8,852
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London
That is very interesting! Are you sure it was not a Genesis 200? (Infinity made the Betas but I not recall Infinity making a Genesis 200 type of system.)

What amps would you today want to try on that speaker system?
He sorry, confused... Yes, genesis 201 or so
 

awsmone

Active Member
Apr 7, 2014
1,061
2
38
Canberra Australia
I listen at 4.5m distance.
Duettas would be 3m to front wall.
Yes it’s interesting how panels load a room differently to cones

Cones tend to drop off at the square of the distance
Panels in a linear relationship

I placed my CLX in the same position as the morel, which required lamm M2.2 to fill the room, and still clipped

The panels are much louder
Bass fills room much more evenly

Mine is a largish room 6 m by 13m, with 2.3 m ceilings

Panels are 3 metres from front wall

I listen 11 ft from panels

But yesterday I was standing at the rear of the room, and if anything I think the sound might have been better

I was listening to the gun battle from Billy the Kid

To describe the bass thwacks as jaw dropping and fast was an understatement

The Goldmund’s are amazing with the CLX! , I have never got them to clip, even when playing ear popping loud..
 

Harlequin

New Member
Jul 30, 2013
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I placed my CLX in the same position as the morel, which required lamm M2.2 to fill the room, and still clipped

The panels are much louder
Bass fills room much more evenly

But yesterday I was standing at the rear of the room, and if anything I think the sound might have been better

I was listening to the gun battle from Billy the Kid

To describe the bass thwacks as jaw dropping and fast was an understatement

The Goldmund’s are amazing with the CLX! , I have never got them to clip, even when playing ear popping loud..
Have you ever measured the base response of your CLX's in your room awsmone? True....that with great amplification the quality of the base produced by the CLX's can be absolutely Stellar.
 

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