My Darling Clementine

[karma]

HI All,
I'm posting about this old John Ford Classic with a purpose. I own two other Wyatt Earp movies, both recent. They Are "Tombstone" and "Wyatt Earp". I acquired "My Darling Clementine" last in the sequence.

As I read the reviews of MDC, I became very enthusiastic. After all, it was John Ford and Henry Fonda. And it was declared a Classic. What could be better? The reviews also spared no effort to put down the latter versions.

I'm afraid I must disagree with the experts. I liked both "Tombstone" and "Wyatt Earp" much better. Ford's movie seems like watered down chicken soup. All the major themes are downplayed to the point of boredom. The human relationships are weak. The characters are weak. I do like the B&W photography, though. Doc Holiday, a prime and important character in the later movies, was just disappointing. Val Kilmer did a fantastic job portraying Holiday in Tombstone.

All in all, I think MDC is an example of a movie that should be great but isn't.

I have not even mentioned the historical problems with MDC. Ford, when questioned about this, said "I don't want to make a documentary". Well, when the real story is so dramatic why change it? No, MDC is more like a fairytale that really doesn't work for me.

Sparky

 

[NorthStar]

I own those older Ford Westerns on DVD, including My Darling ...

It's been a while, and before I do come back to them I want to explore other continents
than the American great West with its characters a la Ford.

Marlon Brando, Henry Fonda, and the rest of the gang they are resting in them place now.

 

[fas42]

Sorry, completely irrelevant, apart from link to Henry Fonda, but I was reminded of my ultimate Western, "Once Upon a Time in the West". Now, that's class ...

Frank

 

[karma]

Sorry, completely irrelevant, apart from link to Henry Fonda, but I was reminded of my ultimate Western, "Once Upon a Time in the West". Now, that's class ...

Frank

Hi Frank,
Yep, I like that one too and I do own it. But it's not my favorite. I prefer Unforgiven, The Good, The Bad, And the Ugly, 3:10 to Yuma, and, to give John Ford some credit, The Searchers.

Sparky

 

[jazdoc]

Oooh, I smell a "Favorite Westerns" thread...

I also like:

"High Noon"
"The War Wagon"
"Stagecoach"
"Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid"
"True Grit"
"Shane"
"Open Range"
"Hud"
"Blazing Saddles"

 

[Ronm1]

Fine ones mentioned so far....I'm partial to the two Snowy River films.

 

[NorthStar]

Hi Frank,
Yep, I like that one too and I do own it. But it's not my favorite. I prefer Unforgiven, The Good, The Bad, And the Ugly, 3:10 to Yuma, and, to give John Ford some credit, The Searchers.

Sparky

Yes, that one! :b ...& to stay on topic with John Ford; John Wayne, Henry Fonda, ...

But Clint is big as well. ...And Sergio Leone.

America is the great West though, and all the Indians and all the beautiful States and all that Jazz.

 

[karma]

Oooh, I smell a "Favorite Westerns" thread...

I also like:

"High Noon"
"The War Wagon"
"Stagecoach"
"Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid"
"True Grit"
"Shane"
"Open Range"
"Hud"
"Blazing Saddles"

HI jazdoc,
All good ones you mention, for sure. Which True Grit do you prefer? I have both and choosing between them is hard. Wayne's version won an Academy Best Actor Award but many thought it was sop to his overall career. I might agree but I really liked the movie and his performance. I think it is his best performance and he deserved the award.

The later version with Jeff Bridges is also excellent. Jeff was so gritty you could smell the caked sweat and boozy breath. Also, an excellent performance. This version is more modern with a more realistic edge.

Matty was great in both movies. I don't see much to separate them.

I guess I think it is a tie. Both great movies.

Sparky

 

[jazdoc]

Sparky,

I think you summarized my responses to the differing versions of True Grit. The recent remake is closer to the original novel (which is a great read).

BTW, I have similar reactions to the different versions of 3:10 To Yuma (I prefer the Glenn Ford version)

 

[NorthStar]

I luv 'The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly',
but I prefer 'Once Upon a Time in the West'
with the best Henry Fonda' screen presence ever. ..A film to die for.

_________

* Do you guys remember the movie 'My Name is Nobody',
also starrring Henry Fonda, and Terence Hill?
It was released in 1973 and was directed by Tonino Valerii.

_________

** 'True Grit', the latest version from the Coen brothers;
the real star is that young actress, Hailee Steinfeld.

 

[karma]

HI NorthStar,
Ha!! You can 't fool me. What you really like is the pretty girl. I don't blame you. That's a good reason to like Butch Cassidy too. Fortunately they are both good films.

Sparky

 

[karma]

HI All,
Since we are making lists, which I think is a good idea, I have one to add.

Lonesome Dove.

Sparky

 

[NorthStar]

HI NorthStar,
Ha!! You can 't fool me. What you really like is the pretty girl. I don't blame you. That's a good reason to like Butch Cassidy too. Fortunately they are both good films.

Sparky

Yes, I like her because she delivers. ...Her lines with aplomb. :b

* Not a big fan of 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid' though.

__________________

Anyone of you guys here who like 'Appaloosa'?
Directed by and starring Ed Harris. And also starring Viggo Mortenson & Jeremy Irons.
See, I ain't naming the female leading actress from that flick. :b

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I'm afraid I must disagree with the experts. I liked both "Tombstone" and "Wyatt Earp" much better. Ford's movie seems like watered down chicken soup. All the major themes are downplayed to the point of boredom. The human relationships are weak. The characters are weak.

This is not always a popular opinion, but I think this is true of much of American film of the 40s,50s, even the early 60s. Our society was too repressed to produce anything reflective of wilder times like the post civil war 19th century west and the 20s. Too often, it was too repressed to produce any thing real, period. When we tried, it came out thin, white washed. As a result, most of the best films of those eras are musicals, comedies, and pretty forgettable. There are some magnificent exceptions, of course, but "the golden age of American cinema?" Give me the 1970s.

Tim

 

[karma]

This is not always a popular opinion, but I think this is true of much of American film of the 40s,50s, even the early 60s. Our society was too repressed to produce anything reflective of wilder times like the post civil war 19th century west and the 20s. Too often, it was too repressed to produce any thing real, period. When we tried, it came out thin, white washed. As a result, most of the best films of those eras are musicals, comedies, and pretty forgettable. There are some magnificent exceptions, of course, but "the golden age of American cinema?" Give me the 1970s.

Tim

HI Tim,
You may well be right. I'm not enough of an expert on, say, pre-1950's movies to be real confident of my opinions. Certainly there were some early movies with an edge. The "Treasure Of The Sierra Madre" had a modern feel and I think was ahead of its time. Also true, to a degree, of The Searchers. But the Maltese Falcon is much more tame than I remember it. Supposedly a prime example of film noir yet the real sense of dirt is washed out. I still like the movie though.

What about Casablanca? I think it works. Also King Kong but it is in a class of its own.

So, we fall back on Fred Astair and Ginger Rogers. Well, that's OK by me because I love their movies. Well, mostly I love their dancing. The plots are usually silly and shallow. But it does get back to what you said.

A pre-1950's movie that really works for me is The Red Shoes (1948, England). I think it is magnificent, an all time great. See the Criterion restoration if you have not. Of course, it was not an American film. Maybe it is necessary to go to Europe to reach the vital heart of film making pre 1950 and even the 1950's and 60's as you sort of suggested. But that also leaves us wanting because of the huge hole caused by WW2. So we have to go to before 1935 for the early stuff and I become lost.

Another source are the Japanese film makers like Kurosawa and Ozi. His movies both have a realistic edge and are truly art. Perhaps what you said is the reason that Kurosawa found a market for his films in the US. Namely, no one in the US was really producing great films so a vacuum existed.

What do you think?

By the way, I was confused by the way people (critics, experts) were using the term "film noir". I didn't know what the hell they were talking about. Guess what? They don't know either. So, anytime I use the term just assume I am trying impress you with my great knowledge but don't believe me! I think film noir is one of those terms that will never have a precise definition but, rather, is one of those "you know it when you see it" things. Film critics have gotta get a life to distract them from confusing us!!

Sparky

 

[NorthStar]

'How the West was Won'; you guys like that one (got the Blu-ray myself)?

 

[karma]

HI Bob,
It's been so many years since I viewed it that I don't remember it well. Did have Debbie Reynolds in it? If so, it did not impress me much. I usually remember the movies I liked.

Sparky

 

[NorthStar]

Yes Sparky, I believe she was in it.

And I think James Stewart, Henry Fonda, John Wayne, Gregory Peck, Robert Preston, Eli Wallach were also in it. There were others too, including some female actresses, well known at the time.

And John Ford was one of the three directors.

I think that it is a great American epic film that sums up pretty well the great American West;
with guns and indians and horses and canoes and all the related decors & all that Jazz....

* Maybe they'll do a 3D version sometimes in the future, and with 4K video resolution.

 

[Ronm1]

Cheyenne Autumn, Silverado, Red River

 

[NorthStar]

Marilyn Monroe, Charlie Chaplin; any fans here? Charlie did few Westerns I believe.
And Marilyn was starring in a couple of westerns as well.

Woody Allen's films; any fans?

'Blazing Saddles' directed by Mel Brooks; that's another great Western. Lol :b