My 2 channel experiment

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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BiggestLittleCity
Listening right now to this set...what marvelous recordings. Fiedler is at his best,well worth having,kind of spendy though. After listening to the first and 2nd disc I again asked myself have we really made that much progress. The live recordings really are worth having alone.
 

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RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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BiggestLittleCity
My Studer C37 motors 117v 60hz are ready for final transport assembly.
 

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Tango

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Must sound so very good in real. Music from CDs?

Kind regards,
Tang
 

RogerD

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BiggestLittleCity
Must sound so very good in real. Music from CDs?

Kind regards,
Tang
Yes Tang videos of music are all Cd. The extreme grounding has made a noticeable difference to clarity etc.
 

RogerD

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One final final thought on grounding. I have wrestled with the question if this grounding scheme actually effects the volume level. After 500+ hours the answer is yes absolutely. I always could listen at 10 o'clock,not any more. Classic is now at 9:30 and Pop music at 9:15 amazingly powerful and superbly clean.

A 25+ pound copper cable parallel circuit takes a hell of a long time to settle...trust me.
 
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jkeny

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Feb 10, 2012
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One final final thought on grounding. I have wrestled with the question if this grounding scheme actually effects the volume level. After 500+ hours the answer is yes absolutely. I always could listen at 10 o'clock,not any more. Classic is now at 9:30 and Pop music at 9:15 amazingly powerful and superbly clean.

A 25+ pound copper cable parallel circuit takes a hell of a long time to settle...trust me.
It could only be an auditory perception effect - how we perceive loudness is more complex than just the volume setting/ sound wave pressure at our tympanic membrane
 

RogerD

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It could only be an auditory perception effect - how we perceive loudness is more complex than just the volume setting/ sound wave pressure at our tympanic membrane
John, whatever it is,it is real.
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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One final final thought on grounding. I have wrestled with the question if this grounding scheme actually effects the volume level. After 500+ hours the answer is yes absolutely. I always could listen at 10 o'clock,not any more. Classic is now at 9:30 and Pop music at 9:15 amazingly powerful and superbly clean.

A 25+ pound copper cable parallel circuit takes a hell of a long time to settle...trust me.
It could only be an auditory perception effect - how we perceive loudness is more complex than just the volume setting/ sound wave pressure at our tympanic membrane
I haven't posted here for a while but the overall dynamics keep improving after more than 6 months of adding the last cable. Now my classical collection plays at 9:10 on the volume pot. Like I said I use to listen at 10 o'clock....not anymore.
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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Nice roger , any more pics on your C 37 restauration project?
Or any tapemachine lol
Thanks...I just keep jammin. My Studer tech says he will have it done in two months. I just hope his health holds up..what a nightmare...but he is the best. He told me last week..the last C37 he will ever do. I have all my other decks upstairs and I'm waiting for the C37..I have a dedicated room for the decks off the listening room. I will probably have a MR70 and the C37 in the listening area and my 440 with the HT system. All the rest will be in the dedicated room...thanks
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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My Vel right now stands @ 90lbs,but I will add 30+ lbs soon. I know you'll laugh....but my 1200 pound dual sub doesn't vibrate or resonate a bit.....:D
Hey RogerD, just added 10kg more to the Velodyne...that's now a total of over 82.5kg (182lbs) incl 5 Artesania damping plates (ie, each plate has 5-20kg) on it. This 10kg was originally on the Zanden Transport...but just picked up 3 x 3.8kg Artesania damping plates (Zanden, Tripoint and Gryphon amp)...all of which already have some amount of mass damping, but these further Artesania dampers have made a nice improvement.

And thus the 10kg was 'free' to go across to the Velodyne. The sound continues to become more 'sure-footed' at the same and also at higher volumes.

My wife even walked in later that evening and simply said 'our system has good bass' while we were playing some deep house electronic at moderate levels while doing some work. That was probably the best part about doing this!
 
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RogerD

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Hey RogerD, just added 10kg more to the Velodyne...that's now a total of approximately 80kg (176lbs) incl 5 Artesania damping plates (ie, each plate has 5-20kg) on it. This 10kg was originally on the Zanden Transport...but just picked up 3 x 3.8kg Artesania damping plates (Zanden, Tripoint and Gryphon amp)...all of which already have some amount of mass damping, but this has made a nice improvement.

And thus the 10kg was 'free' to go across to the Velodyne. The sound continues to become more 'sure-footed' at the same and also at higher volumes.

My wife even walked in later that evening and simply said 'our system has good bass' while we were playing some deep house electronic at moderate levels while doing some work. That was probably the best part about doing this!
Hi Lloyd,
I still have about a 20 kilo piece of granite I want to place on the Vel. Between the dampening and the parallel circuit the bass has become surely powerful and very apply can load the room at low levels. I think I have gone to heaven. As the bass improves seems like everything else has gone with it. Funny thing is it's like a musical patina forming..that slow of a process,but oh so beautiful.
Sounds like you are experiencing similar musical transformations..that's what makes it all worthwhile....Roger
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Hi Lloyd,
I still have about a 20 kilo piece of granite I want to place on the Vel. Between the dampening and the parallel circuit the bass has become surely powerful and very apply can load the room at low levels. I think I have gone to heaven. As the bass improves seems like everything else has gone with it. Funny thing is it's like a musical patina forming..that slow of a process,but oh so beautiful.
Sounds like you are experiencing similar musical transformations..that's what makes it all worthwhile....Roger
here is a neat 'trick' i figured out when placing the polished metal plates on top of the Velodyne. In order to ensure nothing moves...in between the plates, i take the 'excess waste' sticky rubber from the silicon pads (NOT the pads themselves)...and cut squares of it and place it on top of the plate before putting the next plate on top.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GeMoor-Cab...8&qid=1519000191&sr=8-2&keywords=silicon+pads

Silicon pads sheet.jpg

We use the pads themselves for other things of course...but now no wasting!!! Have used a few sheets of this stuff.

At full-on Marvel Comics movie levels blasting...i just measured...the weights have not shifted even 1/16th of an inch!

Its a cheap fix, but it seems to ensure no ringing/slight movement. Part of the reason is elastomer...part of it is because this backing is actually slightly tacky/sticky. I thought for a buck, you might wish to try it with your 20kg of granite. Plus, it probably keeps any scratches from the granite on your beautiful Velodyne finish.
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
3,482
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BiggestLittleCity
here is a neat 'trick' i figured out when placing the polished metal plates on top of the Velodyne. In order to ensure nothing moves...in between the plates, i take the 'excess waste' sticky rubber from the silicon pads (NOT the pads themselves)...and cut squares of it and place it on top of the plate before putting the next plate on top.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GeMoor-Cab...8&qid=1519000191&sr=8-2&keywords=silicon+pads

View attachment 38784

We use the pads themselves for other things of course...but now no wasting!!! Have used a few sheets of this stuff.

At full-on Marvel Comics movie levels blasting...i just measured...the weights have not shifted even 1/16th of an inch!

Its a cheap fix, but it seems to ensure no ringing/slight movement. Part of the reason is elastomer...part of it is because this backing is actually slightly tacky/sticky. I thought for a buck, you might wish to try it with your 20kg of granite. Plus, it probably keeps any scratches from the granite on your beautiful Velodyne finish.
Thanks Lloyd,...I'll pick some up. I forget what I used originally,so this will come in handy.
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
3,482
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BiggestLittleCity
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LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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fantastic!
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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BiggestLittleCity
I was reading Ron's thread about using unamplified music for a reference. One of the main takeaways for me that the total sound should have sound without a edge, just natural. So I had some work to do as the upper midrange lower HF on some recordings had a very small edge but noticeable.
So I spent about 45 minutes adjusting speaker positions including the outboard small psychoacoustic speakers placed on the back wall. These little psycho speakers were key to smoothing out the perceived bump even though they just produce a limited frequency band. I ended up moving these inward on the swivel mount about 2 inches. As I made adjustments a solo violin gained body,detail,color even though it was not closely mic'd. A Columbia recording of Barbara Streisand's 3'rd album lost her edge when she projects her powerful voice. I then put on King Crimson and the cymbals and bells ect had better clarity.
After getting the psychos positioned, I then turned to my satellite speakers having removed a quarter inch riser from the back that had tilted the speakers foward and down a tad. I sit pretty close @ about 10.5 feet. I moved the satellites about one inch closer to the wall with a small amount of toe in and they stand about 76.5 inches from the back wall. Everything snapped into place with even more clarity...wonderful. Always learning in this hobby.
So with a little info from WBF members and a nice glass of red wine
I am a little happier...thanks!
Another note, the psychoacoustic speakers are no longer at roughly the same angle as the satellites and the hall acoustics are much more pronounced and the full envelope of the recording is more palpable. You can actually "see" the orchestra now.

I positioned the satellites a smidge and it really smoothed out and didn't lose any nuance or dimensionality. Really sounds musical now at a little lower volume. The dynamics really have come alive.
 

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RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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The overall clarity really improved as the big gauge parallel circuit settled in....took from Aug '17 to March ‘18

After 4 years of off and on experimenting with single point or star grounding these are my conclusions:
1. The lower the resistance of the grounding cables the better...it’s the size of the pathway that matters.
2. There isn’t a cable made that can reduce the electrical hash sufficiently to replace a grounding circuit.
3. Unless you increase system gain +3 to 6 db your pathway isn’t large enough (lower cable resistance)
4. Digital is by far the winner here the lower noise floor with the grounding produces a audio signal that is nothing but signal. Remove the hash and it is far better than any vinyl or tape rig. I use a Sony DVP NS 55P transport and a modified Monarchy NM 24 and that will compete with any digital rig in the world..get rid of the hash!
5. System efficiency goes off the chart with speaker dispersion increased dramatically.


The parallel circuit weighs about 26 pounds of stranded copper and continues to improve overall SQ in clarity which effects every aspect of the reproduced music. With rack mounting equipment in recording studios from the early days of modern tape formulations,no wonder the recordings were so clear.

Even though my system is not at the top level of systems costing many tens of thousands of dollars,the system is at a level that I never imagined. For a $400 investment the benefits are enormous and I think gives many not able to make a large outlay to get close to the best.
 
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