Music comparison - same album on vinyl, CD and streaming+DAC

[QuinnZ]

Hi, new to this forum. Lots of great info and learning to be had here. I’ve had an interesting audio journey that’s enabled me to learn and buy/sell/trade towards much better systems over the years, leading me to the one I have now that I am very happy with.

I had an opportunity recently to compare a few components with the same album side by side. I’ve been curious of these types of shootouts, and in this case I came away with a better understanding, and I hope that others can benefit. This is the first time I’ve compared these sources together.

The Gear:

Jean Nantais Reference Lenco Mark III turntable
Sonic Frontiers SFCD-1 CD player (upgraded to SE)
LKS MH-DA004 dac
Wiim Pro Plus Ultra

Along for the ride is a borrowed ANK 5.1 Signature tube dac I had a chance to try out. I use the Wiim only to stream (Qobuz) using Coax, and ran it with both the LKS and ANK.

My expectations going in: I fully expect the ANK 5.1 dac to have the greatest sound, followed by the LKS, with the CD player and the TT around the same musical level. Actually I expect the TT to be last...

Why? I have learned that for my particular cartridge the phono pre-amp is key to the right sound. I tried a few different pre-amps, but none of them gave me the satisfaction that the TT was delivering to its potential.

Eventually I settled on a phono pre-amp that was built for me and very affordable (hybrid tube pre). Builder took my cart and pre-amp specs and built accordingly. It's still new so I don't expect it to sound its best yet. Initial plays of the TT were promising.

All these components run through a Bent Audio TAP-X passive pre-amp, a pair of Denon POA-S10 mono block power amps out to a pair of Dunlavy Cantata Speakers.

The stereo room is all drywall, floor is wood with large area rug placed in front of the stereo. Dimensions: 20' (6.096m) x 12' (3.6576m) x 8' (2.4384m). Listening spot to the front of speakers is 12.5' (3.81m)

The Jazz album is The Sidewinder, track 1 The Sidewinder, which has a solo by trumpet, sax, piano and double bass. Wiim audio is set to 16/44.

Onward...

First up is the Sonic Frontiers SFCD-1 SE. This player has been my benchmark over the years when comparing some DACs, TT, etc. In most cases it outperformed them all. I played the CD; the sound is very good, engaging, pretty natural sounding, nice pace and good sound stage.

Next up is the LKS dac. Wow, the music jumps out more, more detail, bit bigger sound stage, more lively and still natural sounding.

Now to the ANK 5.1 dac. Wow, even bigger sound stage, beautiful sound, detailed, but not quite as razor sharp as the LKS. I also hear with the double bass there's more 'fatness', whereas with the LKS I got more sharp detail but a tad thinner sound. The music is more enveloping, fills the room nicely.

I somewhat expected the DACs to be better than the 20+ year old SF CD technology, and in this case they are. What I do find is with the LKS sometimes I keep listening for more detail, whereas with the ANK I never think about it, I just enjoy the music.

Last was the TT using a recent reissue, fairly clean and newish (borrowed) vinyl LP.

No contest. The TT blows them all away! The sound stage and detail are similar to the ANK, but the pacing is better, super engaging, foot and head tapping, it invites you closer to the performance and music, the band and instruments have more life. The double bass sounds monstrous, fat and beefy, almost rip your face off level.

Not the order of things I expected.

Later the same day I did a similar test using my Brothers In Arms CD, 1985 vinyl record and then streaming. The song I focused on is Money for Nothing. Sounded great on the ANK, less so with the CD, but the original vinyl version exploded out of the speakers, still very detailed and natural, but the heft, thrust and power of the music is much more tangible than either digital source. And I've only played this new phono pre-amp a few times. Finally a combination of the TT, a matching phono pre and the pre-amp all working together.

But wait...there's more! Just recently I got a fully upgraded Sonic Frontiers SFD-2 Mk II. The parts (tubes, caps, etc) are still fairly new, so it's not fully worked in yet.

I still had the ANK 5.1 with me when I brought the SFD-2 home. I played the same tracks on both, the SFD is a tad more laid back, but the soundstage, detail and naturalness of the music is very similar. I've played the SFD-2 over a few more days and the sound is improving. It is captivating and fills the room nicely.

What is my takeaway from all this?

I’m happy the TT finally did shine the way I felt was appropriate for what it is, a great and well built unit. It shows the engineering in the Idler Drive, arm, cartridge, plinth and all the pieces that go into extracting music from vinyl discs and sounding great.

But the TT is a big jump in cost compared to the other sources and it's shown you have to get all the parts just right for great sound. Would a similar costing dac sound as good? I would think so. In my experience, as I’ve moved up the budget ladder, more expensive components have tended to sound better. When I had a $500 TT and $100 CD player, the TT was better. Get a $1000 CD player and it was better than the TT, and so on...

But I look at the TT and all it entails as a once in a while, critical listening thing. For much more use I’ll defer to the dac and streaming. The music with my current gear is engaging, enjoyable, sounds realistic enough to me, and I don’t get tired after listening for hours. Plus with streaming I can dig into artists and albums far beyond what I have on vinyl or CD.

I will still treat myself to vinyl records for music I truly enjoy, and discover via streaming. The CD player has had its run, but I prefer streaming as the gear I have sounds better and I'm not limited by my CD library.

The LKS, lower in cost to the other sources, holds up exceptionally well. The ANK has a great sound, and I would consider it a step up if you have the funds to go that route. The SF dac is also outstanding, and for a unit with mostly 20+ year technology it holds up very well today, as long as you’re ok with 16/44 and Coax. But at a lower budget you can’t go wrong with the LKS dac.

 

[Al M.]

Very nice report, thank you.

Yes, up to a point it is all relative to the amount you spend on the respective source.

I have very good modern digital gear, with a Jay's Audio CDT3 CD Transport receiving a 10 MHz clock signal from a Mutec REF10 SE120, and a Mola Mola Tambaqui as DAC (for system details, see my signature; if reading on phone you need to turn it sideways to see it). I don't have vinyl myself, but I think my digital compares well to the excellent vinyl that I have heard on many occasions in other systems.

I am super happy with the music reproduction that my digital provides.

 

[QuinnZ]

Glad to hear you're happy with your setup. I've heard good things about the Mola Mola.

The other day I bought a remastered album of Herbie Hancock's Maiden Voyage. Easily one of my favourite Jazz albums. I have a great sounding CD but always wanted a vinyl copy. This LP was mastered from the original analogue tapes by Kevin Gray.

Today I decided to compare the CD, streaming and vinyl with this album. This time the CD player is my SE modified Anthem CD-1, which (with RCA) sounds exactly like my Sonic Frontiers SFCD-1 SE. My CD was mastered in 1998 by Rudy Van Gelder, and the sound via my Anthem CD-1 is amazing, definitely a nicely mastered piece. I played the first track, sound is very nice, engaging, some great trumpet and sax work in it.

I then switched to the SFD-2 dac; right away I can hear 'more'; everything just sounds better, the soundstage grew a bit, the instruments sound even more natural. This digital album is remastered in 1999 also by Rudy Van Gelder.

The sound is as amazing as the CD version, only better. After starting track 2 I quickly switched to the CD version, right away the soundstage shrunk a bit and now there's 'less', but even with that the sound is still excellent.

Last is the TT, and wow again! Amazing, that more I got with the dac is even more; everything sounds even more alive, the soundstage grew a bit more, nice detail in the cymbals, attack of the trumpet is fierce, there's more weight to the instruments, and more air around them. I switched back to the dac for track 3 after I heard the LP. Wow, that 'life' that's out of the LP dimmed a bit, the fierceness of the trumpet and sax toned down a bit.

I liken this to hearing the TT is like being in the studio with the performers as they play, the closeness and palpable energy that comes into the room from the sounds. The dac is you stepping back a room, and the CD player walking back yet another room. The sound is there, as are the details, but as I move back a room the energy from the studio lessens, and the sizzle dies down a bit. It still sounds great, but it's not exactly the same.

So that was interesting to hear again. I did notice that as I stayed longer with either of the 3 sources over the course of a few more tracks the differences, which are obvious upon quickly switching between them, fade away. Whether it's the CD player, dac or TT, every one sounds excellent on its own.

Having paid attention to the mastering of this CD and album I went back and discovered that my CD of Sidewinder was issued in 1989. For streaming I had access to 2 versions: a 1999 Rudy Van Gelder one (which I used), and a 2012 version.

The 2012 version actually sounded duller, and a lot more like the CD version. So having heard the Hancock CD and LP today I would believe if I had a better mastered CD of The Sidewinder it would have put the CD player version much closer to the dac one.

So there's that issue; different mastering, recordings, reissues, etc.

 

[jeromelang]

before playing any CD, shut down the player to erase playback memory (for a tube-based output design, this is a pain-in-the-arse).
the sonic rewards are more than worth it.

if you are using cd transport and dac, shut both down.
power up the CDT first. load in the disc. let it fully settle. then power up the dac.

after loading in the CD disc, don't immediately press [PLAY]
wait about 10 secs or more for the disc inside to completely stop spinning. (some machine you can hear the whirl)

press [PLAY] with the finger.

don't use the remote.

 

[treitz3]

Hello, @QuinnZ and please allow me to offer you a very warm welcome to the What's Best Forum. Great introductory post, if I do say so myself. Sounds to me like you found your home for audio.

Tom

 

[Paul1960]

I am not familiar with your CD Player but assuming it has a digital out I would bet if you have it output directly to your DAC it will often exceed the quality of streaming and never be worse assuming you are playing the same mastering of the record. That has been my experience even with very cheap CD players. Currently I use a Shanling ET3 outputting over I2S to my DAC and often it is noticeably better than Qobuz but the same was true of a cheap Sony DVD player connected with coax. But even though I am willing to put up with quite a bit of hassle to play vinyl, I almost never play CDs.

 

[Holmz]

I am not familiar with your CD Player but assuming it has a digital out I would bet if you have it output directly to your DAC it will often exceed the quality of streaming and never be worse assuming you are playing the same mastering of the record. That has been my experience even with very cheap CD players. Currently I use a Shanling ET3 outputting over I2S to my DAC and often it is noticeably better than Qobuz but the same was true of a cheap Sony DVD player connected with coax. But even though I am willing to put up with quite a bit of hassle to play vinyl, I almost never play CDs.

You mentioned shanling- but which DAC are you using?

 

[Paul1960]

You mentioned shanling- but which DAC are you using?

Holo May KTE

 

[QuinnZ]

Thanks for the responses. Both CD players have tubes. For any test I've done I leave them on along with the dac and phono pre-amp for hours, then play them back to back. The Anthem CD player has Coax out, which I did plug into the ANK 5.1 Signature dac.

I always felt my CD players performed exceptionally well, and many people that have heard them have attested to that. But via the ANK dac it was a whole other level; bigger soundstage, lush, organic, everything the CD player has but upped a level or so.

I will not be using my dacs with the CD players, I prefer just streaming direct. The CD players will have their place for CD music or when I feel like using them. For instance, I have a 6 CD set of the Jazz Fusion band Nucleus. The Anthem CD player has 6 trays, so I can load them all up and let them play one after the other.

As to where my stereo is now; yes, it's the best it's ever been. I started off with mid-1970s vintage TT and Japanese Receivers, and I was quite happy with them. But as I met more people, heard more systems, and realigned what I wanted, I slowly got to where I am now.