Munich HighEnd 2024

[Alrainbow]

A comment on live performances and what we reproduce in our rooms
a live event even if un amped is very different to a studio recording with amps
what makes people like Marty as an example and sorry to make it him lol
Its his experience in both with Honesty and Truth with the knowledge to explain why.
I’ve had simple live performers at my place
and even if the timbre , tone and attack is right there are a host of other factors that still make it difficult to compare and understanding.
I have a bud who is at his level and it’s hard for me to always like what’s correct
We all know until someone who has the level of real knowledge explains the difference between live and studio recordings. I for one like both for varying reasons
as for those who sell products here and there are many more then most think. it’s all good to me.

what I’m not sure is being one and pointing to another one claiming they maybe be wrong
Hahahaha it’s comical to me.

At the cost of stuff we post about I’m pretty sure no one really says how they really feel and most likely should not.

 

[Rhapsody]

We have a few demos set up for customers that want to see hear the Lorenzo LM 1's and LM 3's from seeing and hearing about Lorenzo speakers at the Munich show. Two members actually from WBF and possibly one or two more will be visiting Rhapsody Brooklyn over the next few months.

Because of the discussion on the finish of the Lorenzo speakers I asked Miguel to explain their process. This was his answer. If someone would like further information please pm me and I will connect you directly with Miguel Lorenzo via email.

Hi Bob,

My varnisher don't want to share the details of the technological processes.

I hope these words are enough.

In the manufacturing process of the cabinet of our loudspeakers we use natural wood veneer of the highest quality. We glue the phenolic plywood panels with the wood veneer in a hydraulic press and then we glue these panels to the cabinet with elastomer. When the panels with the wood veneer are glued to the cabinet we start the marquetry process, driling the 3mm thickness lines to insert the sicomore wood. When the marquetry process is finished we must sand the cabinet very well before to start the varnishing process.

In the varnishing process we apply polyester lacquer in multiple layers and then sand and polish.

 

[Argonaut]

The wisest person on this forum posted the reason for differences in opinions at shows during last year's Munich 2023 discussion. I am quoting from him.

Thanks Kedar … Yes I do vaguely recall posting that ;0}

 

[Argonaut]

According to Brad, AC was able to achieve stellar results on Sunday, so this blaming the room does not seem to apply. It’s all too easy of a crutch in my view to reach for the bad room card.

Carlos … I think that the gist of what has been written being that the room did in fact remain rather challenging ( reference the excellent posts by Ricardo above) however the AC team worked studiously throughout the course of the show attempting to ameliorate those artefacts within their space as best that they could, with what they had to hand, short of re building a dedicated room within a small aircraft hanger .

 

[andromedaaudio]

Thanks Kedar … Yes I do vaguely recall posting that ;0}

Lol , good one Argonaut

 

[Carlos269]

Carlos … I think that the gist of what has been written being that the room did in fact remain rather challenging ( reference the excellent posts by Ricardo above) however the AC team worked studiously throughout the course of the show attempting to ameliorate those artefacts within their space as best that they could, with what they had to hand, short of re building a dedicated room within a small aircraft hanger .

Yes, understood. I guess I have always taken any room as the “given” in the problem and not a thing that I’m allowed to change. I don’t alter my rooms or use room treatments for instance.

kharma built a room within a room and you can judge the results of that exercise for yourself. Should I attribute the muted treble of the sound I hear across over 10 videos of that room to the room-shell they created or to the system?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Should I attribute the muted treble of the sound I hear across over 10 videos of that room to the room-shell they created or to the system?

"Muted treble" to you is natural treble to some others.

 

[Zero000]

Aeries Cerat switches to aircraft engine manufacture.

 

[bonzo75]

"Muted treble" to you is natural treble to some others.

In none of the videos did I hear Natural treble.

In 6 years of regular visits to Munich, I have heard natural treble in extremely few rooms outside WE. Very rare. Less than 10 for sure, maybe even 5. Not that I haven't heard some of those speakers play more naturally outside - Martin Logans would be a classic example sounding very poor in all shows but very natural properly set up.

I won't call the others muted, in person or on video. Synthetic would be a better word, and unnatural. And when I visit I take some recordings I know and play them on the systems, so as not to listen to what is on demo.

 

[Carlos269]

"Muted treble" to you is natural treble to some others.

In my previous thread that was deleted, I addressed this very issue. I think that those who prefer the sound of analog reproduction have become accustomed to a curtailed high frequency extension and resolution. In that particular thread, which is no longer with us I provided a number of examples. For those of us that are listening with HQPLAYER for example, the low level details and nuance provided by the additional treble detail, resolution and extension is simply what separates a resolving system from one with “dull treble”, my characterization and terminology.

 

[Argonaut]

kharma built a room within a room and you can judge the results of that exercise for yourself. Should I attribute the muted treble of the sound I hear across over 10 videos of that room to the room-shell they created or to the system?

That is quite feasible … given that most non pro recording devices together with the YouTube audio algorythm will tend to roll off the higher register of the in room recorded sound anyway.

 

[Lee]

Very straight shooter. It presented music in a curious way, because the foundation was all there, unbounded, nothing out of place, but it didn't led me to suspend disbelief, it was a bit frigid. The electronics it was paired with are also on that side of the game, so don't read too much into this. I'm pretty convinced it was just a matter of too much of the same thing. Paired with counter weight components I'm sure you can do anything you want with them to the highest degree, they are a true statement piece from a performance-driven group of people.

Physically, they are well built (except for the weird color/texture variation between the baffles) but not the most aesthetically pleasant experience. I briefly swapped words with Lawrence, he's always of the opinion it's not his job to do beautiful things, but he doesn't seem interested in creating that job opening also.

Thank you. Much appreciated!

 

[Carlos269]

That is quite feasible … given that most non pro recording devices together with the YouTube audio algorythm will tend to roll off the higher register of the in room recorded sound anyway.

This is a new theory to me. I have to admit that I have not heard that YouTube rolls of the high frequencies before this. It has been my experience that due to recording microphones inability to capture low frequency bass below 40Hz, that systems on YouTube videos sound or are perceived to be tilted-up in tonal balance because of the imbalance created by the lack of low frequency content.

Now having set that, several of the videos of the Kharma room were captured with studio quality microphones and associated electronics that are good for 20Hz to 20KHz. Those recordings I think speak for themselves.

 

[wil]

I might be heavily wrong - but I believe I heard that at one of the shows in Asia (Taiwan maybe) all exhibitors are handed over the CD which they obliged to use...which would align nicely with the point above...

That sounds like a hellish experience.

 

[bonzo75]

That is quite feasible … given that most non pro recording devices together with the YouTube audio algorythm will tend to roll off the higher register of the in room recorded sound anyway.

doesn’t happen at all - at least not for extrapolation

 

[morricab]

It was not good Thursday and Friday. Saturday was completely different to my ears.

Yes. It got better day by day. They found more optimization between Saturday and Sunday. It was another 30-40% better on Sunday.

 

[bonzo75]

Very straight shooter. It presented music in a curious way, because the foundation was all there, unbounded, nothing out of place, but it didn't led me to suspend disbelief, it was a bit frigid. The electronics it was paired with are also on that side of the game

Brad's review: 93 db, 5 ohm nominal, surely with more drops, requires frigid electronics.

Amir's review: Luckily inexpensive at 450k.

Andro's review: Will be great with CAT, no requirement for SETs. SETs suck, did I ever say that? No wood on it. Wood sucks.

 

[morricab]

I might be heavily wrong - but I believe I heard that at one of the shows in Asia (Taiwan maybe) all exhibitors are handed over the CD which they obliged to use...which would align nicely with the point above...

BTW any feedback from Ubiqaudio with Chronosonic and Trafomatic with Tune Audio?

Tune Audio Trafomatic was good…almost made my top 5 affordable systems.

 

[PeterA]

Peter,

Is wil a dealer for some product?

"Talking your book" is an expression used to describe professional portfolio managers touting stocks they own to generate interest in those stocks. It doesn't really apply to somebody who simply is stating personal opinions with no pecuniary motive.

You and Brad are dealers. I do not know anything about Wil. I account for that in your comments about the products you represent and those you do not represent. Simple as that. You have every right to share your opinion. I am not surprised that Clarysis is one of your show favorites at Axpona, nor that Aries Cerat is one of Brad's at Munich.

It is the same as when you do videos of the speakers you sell. I consider that pure dealer marketing via WBF for your brand. And when you film competitors’ speakers, well we’ve already had that discussion. You share your opinions and we decide how to value them.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Brad's review: 93 db, 5 ohm nominal, surely with more drops, requires frigid electronics.

Amir's review: Luckily inexpensive at 450k.

Andro's review: Will be great with CAT, no requirement for SETs. SETs suck, did I ever say that? No wood on it. Wood sucks.
[/QUOTE]

R Canelas was commenting on the new vivids , i never heard those unfortunately .
I never commented on those.

Andro has what he likes to listen to already.
Indeed no wood.( and no Sets )