Munich HighEnd 2024

[Rexp]

my final post..

Gryphon Room;
Gryphon was showcasing their turntable this year. The presentation was all about it. They openly say that; this is not a Gryphon turntable in fact. Gryphon designed the "plinth" if You might say, Brinkmann designed the mechanics and the tonearm, and finally Ortofon improved their MC Anna D design (the best cartridge for me). Gryphon also has applied a coating to the tonearm and the cartridge, the black paint is not on aesthetics, but also a resonance damping chemical. Sounded very good to me.
Also Gryphon's general sound character used to be too "harsh, strong" for me. Had a second hand Mephisto Signature, maybe the rest of the system was too behind it that I couldn't benefit but anytime I used to hear Gryphon it was harsh for me. With this latest generation, they sound more natural, more inviting, not harsh, not fatiguing (also haven't had a chance to listen to long durations) to me. I totally opt for this path. Also liked the speakers.Total sound of the system was very good to my ears.
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Göbel Room with Pilium and Wadax;
New Wadax, Pilium again. No surprise this room was one of my most favorites and from the reactions be mimic or vocal from all the people there, a total favorite for all.
The center of the attention was the Göbel speakers. Yes they have a gib sub but, those short speakers (around 100 cm - 3 feet 4 inches) they were way bigger sounding then they looked. Loved the sound of the room, right sounding, doing everything right, engaging, detailed. Delight to be in that room.
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VTL Room with Wilson and Nordost;
This was again one of the best sounding rooms. Thanks to VTL, this time I was able to listen to Alexia V's at full. Lucky the room was not crowded and noisy (people chatting etc.). I could spend hours in that room till someone kicked me out :]]
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Soulution Room with Gauder Akustik;
I love Soulution sound. It is the most engaging, musical sounding Swiss brand just slightly ahaed of Nagra. Another speaker brand I had never heard of, Gauder akustik. This room sounded wonderful. So musical, so engaging. Couldn't get enough of listening. Wanted more and more.. This setup is a room I would happily get old in.
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MBL Room;
Another brand of which sound signature I am familiar with, but doesn't sing to me. As always wonderful sounding room. Only that the sound level was slightly high for me when I was there, so I stepped behind the back wall separator to fully enjoy the sound.
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Constellation Room with Wilson and Transparent;
I used to know Constellation as another out of reach expensive brand with high appraisal. There was no sign or plate on the windows. Inside there was a separation, so I couldn't see anyone in the room at first. Opened the door anyway and stepped in, asked if it was special demo etc. They said no no welcomed me.
Although they were using Wilson's Sasha V (not a bigger, technically slightly more capable model) and with almost no sound treatment, the sound in this room was by far I mean far my most favorite along with the next one TAD but with slightly different final touches. Here the music was magical, magnetic and whatever You may call it. Music drew me to itself, glued me to the chair. Would happily grow old and die in that chair. The tone, musicality, detail, stage.. This system achieved even some opposite ends (e.g. musicality and technicality) at the same time. Having almost noone in the room also helped, only a few of us, just there to listen and appreciate the music and the equipment that brings the music to us.
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TAD Room;
Kind of ended like a book or a movie for me; the two best rooms happened to be the last two on my route. TAD Room was by far best staging room along with the wonderful sound. Too bad, it was always crowded, people taking photos, walking in & out, chatting, TAD people chatting with visitors (naturally), which reduced the pleasure of the room and even reduced, it was one of the peak highlights of the year for me.
The staging; it was so correct and so "alive" and that TAD people knew it very well that they demoed "live" versions ne after another. I know TAD sound if I remember correct from 600 pre / power system and have also heard the ref speakers but different times and places. This was an ear opener for me. The blueprint of how a system in a good room with good music shall sound.
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till next year...

"MBL Room;
Another brand of which sound signature I am familiar with, but doesn't sing to me. As always wonderful sounding room."

You seem to be contradicting yourself?

 

[Rexp]

Brad, please. "For certain" in a subjective hobby?

If you are telling people essentially that they are wrong to disagree with your view of the sound of an Aries Cerat system, and if they do disagree with you then they don't know what they're hearing, I think it's especially incumbent upon you to let people know that you are an Aries Cerat distributor.

PS: Challenging Marty, of all people, on his live music references, is an unfruitful path. He has a piano in the back of his listening room, and he attends live concerts regularly.

It's not a subjective hobby...

 

[D.Duttilleux]

This is probably the new WP people were talking about .old versus new
Fit n finish of Wilson is excellent.

The composite cabinets + the ScanSpeak Illuminator (level, but supposedly customized) drivers provide a well-behaved, but also a somewhat lifeless (colourless) experience. It's very/typically high-end.
It seems that in their quest for excellence, Wilson somehow lost connection with the essence (soul) of music.

When it comes to cabinet construction, Brodmann (formerly Bösendorfer) and Wilson are virtually opposites.

 

[Rexp]

Peter,

Is wil a dealer for some product?

"Talking your book" is an expression used to describe professional portfolio managers touting stocks they own to generate interest in those stocks. It doesn't really apply to somebody who simply is stating personal opinions with no pecuniary motive.

Any financial markets person past or present may use this phase in any context, lol.

 

[Al M.]

It's not a subjective hobby...

Care to explain?

 

[D.Duttilleux]

It's not a subjective hobby...

Hmmm, interesting.

Tune Audio Trafomatic was good…almost made my top 5 affordable systems.

After listening to several setups with Trafomatic amps, I'd say their price/performance ratio is excellent.

 

[tima]

One thing that keeps jumping to me is the proliferation of screens on everything. I'm not sure if their numbers increased from last years or not, but to me it speaks volumes about most of hifi consumers, manufacturers and sellers. It is part of a larger discussion about design and long term value of hifi.

Nothing screams quality experience better than a middle aged man in a huge room, hunched over an impressive rack with many tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of audio equipment, between two large and impressive loudspeakers, squinting his eyes to see a 1x1 inch representation of a Led Zepplin II album cover on a shitty, overly bright and extremely usefull 1x2 inch lcd screen.

It was everywhere in Munich, and it is a sad sight.

And the User Interface design of those screens will date them in the future.

 

[tima]

Yes, of course. No issues with sharing opinions or that Brad and Ron are dealers. People can certainly express their opinions regardless of affiliations. It is just good to know that they may possibly, potentially, perhaps, maybe be slightly influenced by other interests. Are we not all biased to some extent?

If we were not biased we would be dull and boring. The basis of the bias is something else.

 

[tima]

You both talk your book. I get that and have come to expect it.

Peter,

Is wil a dealer for some product?

"Talking your book" is an expression used to describe professional portfolio managers touting stocks they own to generate interest in those stocks. It doesn't really apply to somebody who simply is stating personal opinions with no pecuniary motive.

What a boorish comment.
To how many people does 'both' refer? It was obvious Peter referred to you and Brad and no one else..

 

[tima]

Doesn't matter that I have a Steinway in my room. I could have a Steinway up my ass and I wouldn't have liked the Ares Cerat any more or any less.

Best of Thread sentence.

 

[D.Duttilleux]

Some say it sucked, others thought the AS system was among the best of show.

One thing is clear: it's not easy to integrate the individual sections (crossovers, time delay/offset etc.), in order to achieve a uniform/homogeneous radiation pattern.

​

I can think of some club owners who would be jealous of the bass horns

 

[Rexp]

No it's not clipping at all IMHO. It's definitely recorded way louder than that was without clipping before.

It wasn't great sounding in there but it was nowhere near as bad as the phone recording is saying it was.

Seems to be picking up an inordinate amount of room reverb for some reason. It is possible I had my finger close or slightly over the mic. Unsure, TBH.

It's a OnePlus 9 Pro, which at the time was quite expensive new, £900 IIRC. The OnePlus 6 I owned before it had a better microphone setup.

I was watching a 4 hour video on my main system last night recorded using a great setup. Various rooms still fresh in my mind, the recordings sounded nothing like what I heard in the various rooms. It's a futile activity. Apart from the visuals.

I think your recordings are better than the 4 hour ones ( Qualio or Totaldac?).
Got any more!?

 

[andromedaaudio]

The composite cabinets + the ScanSpeak Illuminator (level, but supposedly customized) drivers provide a well-behaved, but also a somewhat lifeless (colourless) experience. It's very/typically high-end.
It seems that in their quest for excellence, Wilson somehow lost connection with the essence (soul) of music.

When it comes to cabinet construction, Brodmann (formerly Bösendorfer) and Wilson are virtually opposites.
View attachment 131180

I think they use the revelator series possibly customized .

Electronics and source and off course the music itself can bring the emotions in.

I dont understand why Wilson doesnt demo with the gryphon / Viola labs./ FM acoustics/ Robert Koda

The XVX set up with CH was the best i ve heard the XVX with although they still need a sub apparently.

CH room has consistently well set up systems.
Although overpriced and not best of the show
Nagra room has consistently the opposite afaic
Underpowered muddy lifeless sound.

Best i have ever heard Wilson with was with Audio research and now also VTL.

With rockport lyra i got somewhat the "CH magic " with Wilson not.

I heard also the L1, M1 this year in the Vienna acoustics room .
Sounds good ...but hey still solid state.
I think i get bored with the stuff quit fast.

Pilium and Soulution have the same kinda sound character.
Made to impress with control good for sound effects but not for a long term home environment.
Can sound sharp / hard .

Lesson i learned from this year , tubes are certainly not dead .
Tubes rule at the top of the hill
High power push pull designs

 

[matthias]

I'll pass along a comment by a famous manufacturer who said that when you go into a room demo, you can tell within 5 seconds if the sound is good so you can decide quickly if you want to stay and listen. I agree with that. There were a lot of demos that didn't pass the 5 second test for me. With some, I forced myself to stay more than 5 seconds because they were supposed to be good, but alas, were not. But we have to remember, it's show conditions,. I get that. As many others have said, there just weren't a ton of good sounding displays at MOC.

That's the reason why two days are enough for Munich.......

 

[D.Duttilleux]

I think they use the revelator series possibly customized .

Revelator from the outside, but often with some tweaks, such as the QuadraMag structure:

 

[morricab]

No it's not clipping at all IMHO. It's definitely recorded way louder than that was without clipping before.

It wasn't great sounding in there but it was nowhere near as bad as the phone recording is saying it was.

Seems to be picking up an inordinate amount of room reverb for some reason. It is possible I had my finger close or slightly over the mic. Unsure, TBH.

It's a OnePlus 9 Pro, which at the time was quite expensive new, £900 IIRC. The OnePlus 6 I owned before it had a better microphone setup.

I was watching a 4 hour video on my main system last night recorded using a great setup. Various rooms still fresh in my mind, the recordings sounded nothing like what I heard in the various rooms. It's a futile activity. Apart from the visuals.

Thx for clarifying. Once I got a chance to hear it with good headphones I woukd agree about the overload…I agree it’s not. It does sound strange though…is it an Omni mic? Just wondering why it seems to pick up more of what’s going on around you than many other recordings.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Revelator from the outside, but with some tweaks, such as the QuadraMag structure:

View attachment 131182

So they probably only use the scan speak sliced paper membrane for the higher models ( with the advanced motor design) , but for the lower / cheaper models ?
Dont know.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I wouldnt trade my own XPE design for the XVX .
My speakers dont need subs and have much better bass.
My speakers have a solid bass foundation for the music.

 

[Al M.]

I wouldnt trade my own XPE design for the XVX .
My speakers dont need subs and have much better bass.
My speakers have a solid bass foundation for the music.

I am sure they do. Regardless, practically any speaker can benefit from subwoofers.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I am sure they do. Regardless, practically any speaker can benefit from subwoofers.

No not imv