MCB & other Breakers : Not to be ignored when perfecting audio powerlines

[Stigmater]

Since Gigawatt has reversed connection can I just mount it upside down ? Is there any issues with that ? I know it has some kind oily liquid inside so just wanted to know.
Installed it 2 days ago and to be honest it quite disappoint me so far with sound degradation

 

[zacho]

Hi guys, I asked this in the Doepke RCCB thread but no luck in getting any responses. I shall try asking here.

Just got my first home and now finalising my dedicated lines. I've gotten the Doepke DFS2 + 2x Gigawatt G-16A. Am now considering getting another G-16A but not sure if it'll present compatibility issues with the DFS2 since it's only got 2 terminals? Has anyone connected 3 MCBs to the DFS2??

 

[Blackmorec]

Hi guys, I asked this in the Doepke RCCB thread but no luck in getting any responses. I shall try asking here.

Just got my first home and now finalising my dedicated lines. I've gotten the Doepke DFS2 + 2x Gigawatt G-16A. Am now considering getting another G-16A but not sure if it'll present compatibility issues with the DFS2 since it's only got 2 terminals? Has anyone connected 3 MCBs to the DFS2??

A Doepke RCCB can serve 2, 3 or more 16A MCBs. The problem is that the combination of Doepke with Gigawatt MCB is that the layout of the 2 switches are incompatible with Bussbars so must be connected using cable.
The Doepke has 4 terminals…the Live and Neutral input from the meter and the live and neutral output/return to/from the MCBs. If you use 3 Gigawatts, then the 2 terminals on the Doepke each need to handle 3 cable cores….the 3 Live inputs to the MCBs and the 3 Neutral returns from the MCBs. While this is entirely possible, it depends on the gauge of the cable used and whether the terminal can securely clamp the 3 cable cores properly and effectively.
So, in essence the answer is yes, a Doepke RCCB can serve 3 Gigawatt MCBs. The issue is, can the 3 connecting cables used be securely connected to each of the Doepke’s terminals. Your electrician is therefore the guy to ask about this as its an installation issue.

As always, have a qualified electrician do the job as you need to have a safe and secure installation

 

[zacho]

A Doepke RCCB can serve 2, 3 or more 16A MCBs. The problem is that the combination of Doepke with Gigawatt MCB is that the layout of the 2 switches are incompatible with Bussbars so must be connected using cable.
The Doepke has 4 terminals…the Live and Neutral input from the meter and the live and neutral output/return to/from the MCBs. If you use 3 Gigawatts, then the 2 terminals on the Doepke each need to handle 3 cable cores….the 3 Live inputs to the MCBs and the 3 Neutral returns from the MCBs. While this is entirely possible, it depends on the gauge of the cable used and whether the terminal can securely clamp the 3 cable cores properly and effectively.
So, in essence the answer is yes, a Doepke RCCB can serve 3 Gigawatt MCBs. The issue is, can the 3 connecting cables used be securely connected to each of the Doepke’s terminals. Your electrician is therefore the guy to ask about this as its an installation issue.

As always, have a qualified electrician do the job as you need to have a safe and secure installation

Thanks. So what gauge wires has everyone been using? And does the Doepke specify what the maximum gauge it can accept in the terminals?

I emailed Doepke to ask but got recommended the following:

 

[agisthos]

@zacho

Rather than daisy chaining the Gigawatt breakers, if the DFS2 has big enough terminals, run 3 separate live wires out the DFS2, one to each Gigawatt. It may make no difference, but it might.

Also, the neutral rail in that diagram is just a 3-way split for the neutral of your 3 lines, all going directly back to the DFS2, correct?
Because the neutral rail in that diagram should NOT be the common neutral rail that the entire electrical system is connected to, as that common rail should be on the supply side of the DFS2 neutral input.

Well it is in Australia anyway, as the neutral and earth rails are connected together at the supply box, so an RCD must do its job after this point. Perhaps in Euro countries its different...

 

[zacho]

@zacho

Rather than daisy chaining the Gigawatt breakers, if the DFS2 has big enough terminals, run 3 separate live wires out the DFS2, one to each Gigawatt. It may make no difference, but it might.

Also, the neutral rail in that diagram is just a 3-way split for the neutral of your 3 lines, all going directly back to the DFS2, correct?
Because the neutral rail in that diagram should NOT be the common neutral rail that the entire electrical system is connected to, as that common rail should be on the supply side of the DFS2 neutral input.

Well it is in Australia anyway, as the neutral and earth rails are connected together at the supply box, so an RCD must do its job after this point. Perhaps in Euro countries its different...

Are you able to help me draw a diagram to better visualise what you're saying about the neutral rail? That's what Doepke sent me directly. I'm in Singapore. Also I was asked specifically not to connect 3 separate live wires out the DFS2 as it should only be a maximum of 2.

 

[agisthos]

Are you able to help me draw a diagram to better visualise what you're saying about the neutral rail? That's what Doepke sent me directly. I'm in Singapore. Also I was asked specifically not to connect 3 separate live wires out the DFS2 as it should only be a maximum of 2.

Actually I am looking at it now and I think this only applies to Australian wiring, so ignore what I said. Or I could be wrong. It's best to get a qualified electrician in your country.

The DFS2 may only be rated for 2x 2.5m wires in one output, and that's why they said to only do 2, because of liability issues. But try putting 3 in there and see if they fit.

 

[agisthos]

@zacho

This image from UK wiring seems to be clear. Pretend the DFS2 is the first RCD below. The Neutral 1 rail just links the neutrals for you 3 dedicated lines, and this runs back to that DFS2 N output.
But how they do it in Singapore may be different.

 

[zacho]

@zacho

This image from UK wiring seems to be clear. Pretend the DFS2 is the first RCD below. The Neutral 1 rail just links the neutrals for you 3 dedicated lines, and this runs back to that DFS2 N output.
But how they do it in Singapore may be different.

View attachment 99259

Isn't that what's drawn in my diagram? Haha I'm so clueless when it comes to this stuff so please excuse my ignorance.

 

[zacho]

This is what Doepke sent me and is what's taken from the official data sheet. Ideally I would have done what you are suggesting but I'm just not brave enough to directly disregard the advice of the manufacturer. Seems to be quite explicitly stated.




No, unfortunately, our clamps may take a maximum of 2 conductors as shown in the table.

When using one conductor, cross-sections of 1.5mm²-50mm² may be connected.

When connecting 2 conductors, 2 conductors with a cross-section of 1.5mm²-16mmm² may be connected.



When using two conductors, they must have the same cross-section.

However, in no case may more than two conductors be connected.

 

[Kingrex]

In the US we can't play with breakers. And I do agree they matter. I swapped in 4 fuses in Michael Fremers panel for an hour to see what we would hear. It was a dramatic change.

What we can work with is the panel that holds the breaker. Europe and Asia not only have a few more options for breakers, you also have a pretty good all copper foundation to land the breakers. That is what I have focused on for the last few years in the US. The panel.
Fortunately one of the best breakers I have seen from breaking them open is a Square D breaker. More heavy copper as well as less welds. Square D is also the only panel available in the US where I can source UL listed and labeled copper grounds, neutrals and lugs. And it makes a large difference.

I have done direct comparison of a stock SqD QO loadcenter that is an industry standard used in higher end homes, and a SqD NQ panelboard sourced as all copper. I have attached them both to 2 branch wires to my room and listened. The breaker did not change. Both the QO and NQ use the same breaker. So I simply pulled the breaker off the bus and swapped the feeder from the loadcenter to panel. Took about 10 minutes. My audiophile friend who was there to listen with me, as well as myself were shocked at how much noise seemed to be removed. The room was more quiet and a very audible simbilance was removed from the entire frequency spectrum. We both felt it was on a level of adding a isolation transformer. Very very audible. Its not easy to change a panel. Surely not like changing a breaker. If your in construction or adding a subpanel, that is an excellent time to take advantage of using one. Even if your not an audiophile, the current energy consumption demands are growing and electrical devices that utilize rappid chargers will function flawless on a industrial NQ panel. All aluminum loadcenters like SqD Homeline and Eaton BR are suffering failures on the buss fingers from such high demand current day after day. That won't happen with a panelboard. At a minimum you need to use a loadcenter with a copper bus like SqD QO or Eaton CH. But they both have aluminum neutrals and grounds. Aluminum is very audible in a negative way.

When I prepare panel I go to additional lengths to make it the best it can possibly be. They come with silver coated bus which is covered with oxidation and cutting oils. I strip the bus and clean them to bright finish and coat with anti oxidation compounds. I also polish all the contact points as the tin is spalded and has poor conductivity. It has also taken me half a year to get into stock factory materials that are produced on a very limited basis. I have waited 8 months to get an interior as I want. I bought about 20 to have stock