Magico M9

[spiritofmusic]

Is there much difference between Magico selling these for $750k, and...
AF0 $450k
SAT arm $50k
Select 3/Wadax Ref $120k
Lessloss Laminar steamer $95k

Do we see as much apparent cost no object/tech tour de force/pioneering design/unique bleeding edge application, in these M9s, as these other products?

Indeed, is there anything truly unobtanium fantastic in the aforementioned list that starts the conversation on justifying their prices?

 

[parkcaka]

A close friend of mine is in a very exotic business. He literally aids "really rich" people (mostly from China) gamble all around the world. He travels with them, deal with casinos for exchange rates, open private tables, game rooms, arrange opponents for them. Secure their winnings, plan their travel and accommodation details. Some of his clients even do not have a second language so he is also a reliable translator for them. I'm not getting into other kinky details.

He is basically their private casino aid.

He just doesn't see home. He is always on the road with someone.

On a normal night, his clients spends more than a million USD. 5-10 on a raging night.

Magico, Wilson, Gryphon etc. They are all hi-end businesses. Even their cheapest speaker is out of reach (financially and/or mentally) of 99% of the population. Thus they are hi-end.

These "really rich" people are at the far end of this hi-end customer spectrum. A hi-end business can not ignore their most lucrative customer group. This is just not a choice. I thought they would aim for it sooner. For years they sold only 200K reference speakers to people who make 20 million dollars a month while watch makers were putting 5-6 million USD statement models on the market.

In my view, requesting these hi-end companies stay away from this far end market is not fair. I can never buy one of these speakers and I don't care if Magico or Wilson makes one. I don't know what to do with it even if I can buy one. They have to be 10x harder to set up right than a Wilson Alexia or Magico S5. My audiophile knowledge is around "normal" speakers.

I understand the frustration because I feel it inside too. I love this hobby and having the best is the never-ending goal. I know the most expensive doesn't mean it is the best but knowing that there is a "reference" you can never have (even if it sounds as good as its price) is somewhat itching. I want these companies to work on products that we can own or dream to own. But is spending 50K on a speaker less crazy than spending 500K? I don't know, the jury is out on this one.

I rarely find these monster speakers sound the way I want/dream them to be. I don't think M9 will be different. I don't think they are serving our hobby a lot of good but it's a business after all and as long as these companies stay strong, they will serve us more.

Love and respect, Cagdas.

 

[christoph]

Maybe before Lloyd picks up THAT pair of used Rockport Arrakis?

...or you start streaming
...or Ked owns a full system
Sorry, I could not resist

 

[the sound of Tao]

...or you start streaming
...or Ked owns a full system
Sorry, I could not resist

Or when they develop an antiviral for Covid-19... all these will be critical development points in human history .

 

[spiritofmusic]

...or you start streaming
...or Ked owns a full system
Sorry, I could not resist

A man has gotta have dreams...have ambitions...
Arthur had his Holy Grail, Indy had the Ark...

 

[christoph]

Re surface area of drivers comparisons, how does this M9 compare to the Alsyvox Caravaggio, 2-panel and 4-panel?

The Panels may have the (way) bigger surface but much less throw than cone drivers.
You need to compare the displacement

 

[spiritofmusic]

Christoph, the only displacement I'll get from spending stupid money on audio is from my relationship.

 

[LL21]

Maybe before Lloyd picks up THAT pair of used Rockport Arrakis?

My favorite speaker...but the 2 amps, the 2 cables, the active crossover, the 2000lbs of weight, the lack of a distributor or coverage...that is a bridge too far.

 

[christoph]

I have heard the Magico Ultimates, set up with the Vivaldi front end and Avant Garde Amplification at Paragon Jeddah. Did nothing to convert me , into a Magico fan.

In my experience, with that front end, ANY speaker would struggle to convince me

 

[microstrip]

(...)
I understand the frustration because I feel it inside too. I love this hobby and having the best is the never-ending goal. I know the most expensive doesn't mean it is the best but knowing that there is a "reference" you can never have (even if it sounds as good as its price) is somewhat itching. I want these companies to work on products that we can own or dream to own. But is spending 50K on a speaker less crazy than spending 500K? I don't know, the jury is out on this one.

I can't understand the frustration of audiophiles just because someone manufactures a very expensive speaker and the negative feelings towards them. High-end is an hobby, with all the characteristics associated to such practices, stereo is standard for music reproduction that allows for a wide variation of systems and designers/manufacturers push the limits of sound quality using resources that cost money. As simple as that. If we want a more solid ground we can always go multichannel.

I rarely find these monster speakers sound the way I want/dream them to be. I don't think M9 will be different. I don't think they are serving our hobby a lot of good but it's a business after all and as long as these companies stay strong, they will serve us more.

Love and respect, Cagdas.

Well, although some times I have listened to these monster speakers not sounding the way I want/dream them to be, I have the feeling and confidence that most of the times with time and adequate conditions I (and many others, surely) could built a great system using them and enjoy them fully.

Something that I can't understand is why some people choose to focus on the negatives in this hobby and forget about the positives. We have excellent, informative, happy and enjoyable reports and debates on great systems using high cost equipment around the net, in this and other audio forums. We have interviews with the designers of such equipment, presenting enthusiastic designers and teams, their objectives and their views. Most of them have a dream and pursuit an ideal. We have threads calling for the best designers and people comments show we admire them. Where is this love gone?

 

[bonzo75]

We have threads calling for the best designers and people comments show we admire them. Where is this love gone?

The point seems lost. The love is for the best designers and products, not for best prices. Btw, the negative comments are not against manufacturers. They should be allowed to make money. It is sad that we are in a state where the ability for them to make money is based on what they price, rather than how the product sounds. This is due to the way some audiophiles judge products, and that is the negative.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Why would you think the M9s would need subs? Twin 15"s not enough?

I never wrote "need." Need is different than want.

We (the collective we) have several data points of audiophiles adding subwoofers to loudspeakers with dual 15" woofers.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I can't understand the frustration of audiophiles just because someone manufactures a very expensive speaker and the negative feelings towards them. High-end is an hobby, with all the characteristics associated to such practices, stereo is standard for music reproduction that allows for a wide variation of systems and designers/manufacturers push the limits of sound quality using resources that cost money. As simple as that. If we want a more solid ground we can always go multichannel.



Well, although some times I have listened to these monster speakers not sounding the way I want/dream them to be, I have the feeling and confidence that most of the times with time and adequate conditions I (and many others, surely) could built a great system using them and enjoy them fully.

Something that I can't understand is why some people choose to focus on the negatives in this hobby and forget about the positives. We have excellent, informative, happy and enjoyable reports and debates on great systems using high cost equipment around the net, in this and other audio forums. We have interviews with the designers of such equipment, presenting enthusiastic designers and teams, their objectives and their views. Most of them have a dream and pursuit an ideal. We have threads calling for the best designers and people comments show we admire them. Where is this love gone?

Micro I’m not sure this is about people only seeing negatives at all. It might not be about this speaker at all. Some are more than happy to get caught up in the hype. More joy to those. But from all our experience none of this ever really leads to lasting nirvana... its likely just another speaker release really. No different to Chronosonic, or Maxx or M6 or Magico Pro or any other next big thing release tease.

This isn’t about anyone’s failings from not getting excited or in essentially questioning the constant inflation and deflation in the system. It is understandable that some feel like there is something fundamentally programmed about these releases. Marketing is fine but it isn’t always very aligned with truthfulness. Are the values of marketing of greater value than those of perspective? So if some feel like not joining in on the spin or the circus maybe it’s because they are over falling for that same spin all the time. Do these next Sota statement speakers attain lasting status always... or even often... or is it just even so very occasionally.

It’s ok to not believe ... just like it’s fine to believe as much as you like. Most all the next big things have faded into much lesser places. The overthrow rate and speed of diminishment of increasingly super expensive gear is though depressing. Nobody buys last years flavour of the month.

Perhaps we might have next big thing attention deficit. Perhaps we are learning. Sure all this stuff temporarily feeds the circus but rarely does it then deeply nourish through time. The next big thing always strips out the accomplishment of the previous. The second hand Sota market can be savage. These things are all fleeting and in some ways perhaps ultimately quite hollow. Where is the meaning in it.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Can someone post what the uber priced components were in decades past?
What did Apogee Grands and Full Ranges cost in the 90s?
The SOTA Boulder phono?
Rockport Sirius tt?
Studer class leading R2R machines?

We now have an uber tt at $500k, a tonearm at $50k, two dacs at $120k, two spkrs now at $650-750k.

How were those previous trailblazers for the bleeding edge comparing?

 

[microstrip]

The point seems lost. The love is for the best designers and products, not for best prices. Btw, the negative comments are not against manufacturers. They should be allowed to make money. It is sad that we are in a state where the ability for them to make money is based on what they price, rather than how the product sounds. This is due to the way some audiophiles judge products, and that is the negative.

So the negative comments are just against some audiophile who appreciate top high-end that is expensive? Do you think that these few people are important enough to frustrate others?

Surely we can hope that consumers become more educated and knowledgeable, but as far as I see it it was not what was being debated.

 

[bonzo75]

So the negative comments are just against some audiophile who appreciate top high-end that is expensive? Do you think that these few people are important enough to frustrate others?

Surely we can hope that consumers become more educated and knowledgeable, but as far as I see it it was not what was being debated.

Against some of them who use price, without listening, to judge sonics, yes. Feel free to debate what Magico M9 can be, what the design aspects are. But it is really unfair to position this as some sort of Titan along with similarly priced speakers, when much cheaper priced speakers could be far sonically superior. That's all. Until people hear this, let's save judgement on sonics. Same as with anything else.

 

[microstrip]

Against some of them who use price, without listening, to judge sonics, yes. Feel free to debate what Magico M9 can be, what the design aspects are. But it is really unfair to position this as some sort of Titan along with similarly priced speakers, when much cheaper priced speakers could be far sonically superior. That's all. Until people hear this, let's save judgement on sonics. Same as with anything else.

You have a point here - this thread is coming ahead of its time, no one has listened to the M9 and the speaker is not even available for listening. But considering the experience of the WAMM and the Magico currriculum I feel we have good reasons to have expectations and the thread is bringing us information. As I often say, audio forums are top for information and entertainment.

But please feel free to publish a list of speakers easily available with good distribution and support that you feel they surpass the WAMM at one then tenth the price, particularly if they are a great match with the Lamm ML3 ...

 

[LL21]

Can someone post what the uber priced components were in decades past?
What did Apogee Grands and Full Ranges cost in the 90s?
The SOTA Boulder phono?
Rockport Sirius tt?
Studer class leading R2R machines?

We now have an uber tt at $500k, a tonearm at $50k, two dacs at $120k, two spkrs now at $650-750k.

How were those previous trailblazers for the bleeding edge comparing?

Interestingly, the Wilson X1/Grand Slamm in 1994 to 2019 price for the XLF (not the XVX) works about to approx 4.5% annual inflation...$70K to $210K during that period of time. About 6% if you take it forward to the latest price of the XVX in 2020.

 

[gds7368]

Why would you think the M9s would need subs? Twin 15"s not enough?

I don't even want subs on my M Pro's, so I can't imagine (unless the room has issues) that M9s would benefit from subs.

 

[bonzo75]

You have a point here - this thread is coming ahead of its time, no one has listened to the M9 and the speaker is not even available for listening. But considering the experience of the WAMM and the Magico currriculum I feel we have good reasons to have expectations and the thread is bringing us information. As I often say, audio forums are top for information and entertainment.

But please feel free to publish a list of speakers easily available with good distribution and support that you feel they surpass the WAMM at one then tenth the price, particularly if they are a great match with the Lamm ML3 ...

If you buy something for service, WAF, distribution, exclusivity, you can choose your criteria, it is good to say it. Just should not be assumed all for sonics, that's all.