Looking for Preamp

[CKKeung]

Passive preamps, particularly transformer type and autoformer type when used in a suitable system, can be on par or even surpass active preamps costing 2 or 3 times.

I once took my old Bent Audio balanced preamp (4 slageformers inside) to compare with a frd's 720+700+745+Maggie 20.7 system.
My cheap Bent Audio won easily when playing vocals, strings, chamber music ...etc.
The 720 of course was better on large scale orchestral music.
Their price diff is huge!

 

[Number9]

POST EDITED.....Do you think it was more the system components that made the Bent Audio more to your liking or the music selection, and do you think that the passive will always sound better with small scale music in carefully selected system? I might agree in general with the concept of passives sounding in some ways more detailed and more transparent (having nothing to do with emotion, involvement) with the most basic music but I seldom listen to aria, a cappella , or solo/duo instrumentals. Not being literal but you get the idea.

 

[c1ferrari]

http://2400audio.com/
Sundry program material will sound different with this in the signal path.
That's a good thing.

 

[Number9]

This may be true Sam but I don’t think I could ever figure out how to use it.

 

[c1ferrari]

This may be true Sam but I don’t think I could ever figure out how to use it.

Haha! I know what you mean...I needed some remedial tutorials from the designer before purchasing both a 2U and 1U Imperium. Make no mistake about it, the copy describes that the Imperium is a digital controlled passive stereo monitor console; however, do not conflate this with any type of conversion, whatsoever. The audio path is pure...delicious...balanced -- analog!

 

[orfeo_monteverdi]

...There seems to be a lot of professional reviews of the Grandinote preamps ... My question, has anyone heard any of these at a show or anywhere else that could compare with either CJ, Constellation, or any Rowland house sound? I will be partnering up with a pair of Berning Quadz’s. Another top contender for me is the SMc but cost is ^^^.

Please note that French is my mother tongue, I just do my best in English. I live in Europe.

I just faced a similar situation, and I had to upgrade my YBA 1 preamplifier. I don't like tubes (too colored): I attend to live concerts, acoustic instruments. I expect my hifi reproduces the live sensation, not a rosy view of it. I am also wary about tube maintenance. I am the most demanding music lover and audiophile you can imagine, but I also like good-looking, slightly discrete gear.

That said, would you please let me explain you why I just bought an extremely bold, fairly ugly (though got accustomed to it very quickly), 74,9Lb (!!), TUBE preamplifier !!!
It is the FANTASTIC, the breathaking, the amazing Aries Cerat Incito. SET tube preamplifier with zero feed-back. Roughly $8500?

So why that TANK?
Roughly, because I just listen to it by curiosity, and was not prepared at all for this: it just BLEW me AWAY as it dramatically outperformed my YBA 1 preamp. YBA preamplifiers are nevertheless excellent transistor preamps, all with external power suppply with oriented grain double C transformers.

A bit of context.
To give an idea, my previous YBA 2 preamp (medium model) stayed in Class A Stereophile Recommended Components during approx. 10 years. According to an audiophile I met recently at a dealers', his YBA 2 dramatically outperformed an 2017 Ayre preamp. So, that is the YBA2. My YBA 1 preamp outperformed my former YBA 2. So I was very, very confident that the YBA 1 was still a terrific reference, even 20 years later. This had been confirmed by connoisseur of the highest calibre in EU.
The cherry on the cake: I heard about 2 guys in Europe who are selling their YBA Signature 4 chassis preamplifier after they heard the Aries Cerat Incito - gulp...

As far the listening is concerned, I was not prepared for such a !!! SHOCK !!!
After only 30 min of warming up, the Aries Cerat Incito had conquered me after 2 tracks.
To sum up, in comparison with my YBA 1 preamp:
- Much wider stage
- significantly deeper stage
- more transparent (YES!!! more transparent than a YBA 1!!!). But only slightly ;-)
- more height in the stage (!)
- MUCH more DYNAMIC (tubes)
- and the cherry on the cake: timbre, TIMBRES, T-I-M-B-R-E-S !!! TIMBRES !!! Oh My God! MUCH better timbres, singers now sing also with the chest, the wood of the instruments sound much fuller, etc.
- it does NOT sound like a typical tube (I hate their honey-topping on everything). It is super-fast, transparent and dynamic. Terrifically lifelike.
- no highs roll-off, with sweet and lifelike treble, extremely well integrated with the mid.
- can tightly handle extreme low bass (most of tube preamps cannot).
- Practically speaking, it dos not get warm, tubes last 10.000 H and replacement by Aries Cerat selected and validated tubes cost $150. Peanuts. It reassured me enough to take a leap in the "dark" (even if tubes emit light).
- remote-controlled with a efficient and silent system. What a comfort ! ( >< YBA 1, full manual).
- uses a better tube than the ubiquitous 6H30 (they compared, the manufacturer told me).
- at the heart of the Incito there is a small single ended triode (SET) zero feed-back amplifier, in a single stage, acting as an active preamplifier that could drive any load.
- Output Impedance : <50 Ohm, so would drive your monoblocks easily.

My system made a quantum leap forward. The best upgrade ever. I could keep the Incito 1 week at home, and could barely recognized my system...We all know a preamp is important. But such a shock !

I know a preamp shouldn't be chosen for its weight, but at 74,95 Lb (=34Kg), it says a lot IMHO about the seriousness of Aries Cerat's power supply. Huge transformer, 5 chokes. All tube competitors, at DOUBLE the price, weight TWO TIMES LESS. There are barely a few IC, just for control. The rest is 100% "manual wiring" (I don't know the word in English, sorry - I mean: nearly no Integrated Circuit).

Yet a little more context.
For the price of the tube preamp you mentioned, there is an Incito S. Identical, with external power supply and a few differences with the plain vanilla Incito. So the Incito S costs around 15.000$. A reviewer in Asia compared it directly with his Audio Note M10S tube preamp (US $137,280), and said the Incito S gave him just nearly as much pleasure as his M10S.
The Incito S achieves -110db in SET with zero feed-back: transistor-like figures...

I am personally grateful to those extremely talented gentlemen (the main designer and founder of the company is an aeronautical engineer): they gave me access to a level of musical satisfaction that I thought was (financially) well beyond my reach. Unbelievable.
I have the feeling that Aries Cerat belongs now to that very closed stratospheric ultra-high-end world of the few very best manufacturers in the world. Aries Cerat gives you an invitation to access it for the price of "common" high-end gear (their full system, BTW, based around the Symphonia 101dB zero-diffraction horn speaker, is BY FAR the best system I have ever heard in my all life. Perdiod).
If you live in the US, could be worth to cross one state, or even several ones, to get a sample on trial.

NB: I am a private person, without the faintest interest in Aries Cerat or in audio industry. I already bought my Incito. This post should be read as an expression of a perfectly sincere enthusiasm. My link to their website is only there for your convenience.

Orfeo_monteverdi.

 

[Number9]

Hi Oliver. Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences and I am happy that you’re a satisfied customer. I guess I didn’t make it clear but I already bought the Soulution 721. My decision was based on reviews and comments very much like the one you posted but mostly from discussions with a dealer that had no financial interest in my decision. Bonzo pushed me over the edge though so this is mostly all on him. I am sure the AC is as good as you and others say and likely would have worked well for me. The truth of the matter though is that (imo) the room and speaker setup dictate most of the characteristics associated with soundstage and imaging. I also believe that the systems that are the least talked/written about (by their owners) are usually the best. The most helpful comments for me on the sound of a system or component unfortunately cannot be made with words but rather with the lack of them through body and facial expressions. I would much rather watch a YouTube system review focused only on the listener and the room setup than on the sound or visual of the components themselves however any unbiased imformation is helpful.

 

[morricab]

Hi Oliver. Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences and I am happy that you’re a satisfied customer. I guess I didn’t make it clear but I already bought the Soulution 721. My decision was based on reviews and comments very much like the one you posted but mostly from discussions with a dealer that had no financial interest in my decision. Bonzo pushed me over the edge though so this is mostly all on him. I am sure the AC is as good as you and others say and likely would have worked well for me. The truth of the matter though is that (imo) the room and speaker setup dictate most of the characteristics associated with soundstage and imaging. I also believe that the systems that are the least talked/written about (by their owners) are usually the best. The most helpful comments for me on the sound of a system or component unfortunately cannot be made with words but rather with the lack of them through body and facial expressions. I would much rather watch a YouTube system review focused only on the listener and the room setup than on the sound or visual of the components themselves however any unbiased imformation is helpful.

All good but there is one thing in your statements that you really need to reconsider, "The truth of the matter is that (imo) the room and speaker setup dictate most of the characteristics associated with soundstage and imaging", this is not a truth, IMO. In fact, I can easily destroy your soundstage and imaging with wrong choice of electronics. I have demonstrated this numerous times to both audiophiles and non-audiophiles alike...in good rooms, bad rooms, good speakers and bad speakers. If you don't get the soundstage and imaging you want then look closely at your electronics choices...otherwise you might be chasing your tail for awhile...

Good luck with the Soulution 721...

 

[marty]

As long as the subject is preamps, here's one that might be worth exploring.....

Everybody knows that John Curl is a legend. Much to my astonishment he's just designed a new tube phono preamp for Audible Illusions. Why is that interesting? Because Audible Illusions has been around for 30 years and nobody really knows about them!! Or let's put it this way, they're hardly an audiophile household word. I heard their Modulus 3A preamp 30 years ago and never forgot the sound which was superb. (It's when I first heard Cantate Domino and I remember it like yesterday. Stunning choral soundstage and natural as can be. It was one of my first audiophile "epiphany moments".) The AI Modulus 3A has been available used regularly for years for about $2000! It is surely one of the best high end bargains around. It has received constant improvements over the years (separate PS, better components) but nobody even talk about it because its so old! Yet the company is still around. I don't even know if you can find a review that's not 20 years old!

What's really interesting is that John Curl isn't going to waste his time designing a phono stage for just anyone. He obviously knows how good and under-rated Audible Illusion products are.

I'm not sure what's going on with the company as their web site seems to be down (being redesigned?). But some info is below. It appears that their latest update is their 3B preamp (which costs $200 more than the 3A) and seems to be their top of the line. It's got the goods as far as I can tell; Dual-Mono, Class A, Single-Ended Triode, Open Loop (no neg feedback) etc. And oh yeah, it's definitely not a glamour piece.

https://www.lpgear.com/product/AUDIBLEILLUM3B.html

But there's actually a mint 3B on Audiogon now for $2900 with a built in MM phono stage. (Not sure if it can be changed for MC).
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9823b-audible-illusions-m3b-phono
I would not dismiss these preamps quickly for two reasons. First and foremost, despite being utilitarian it's probably a damn fine sounding full function preamp. Second, the money saved could easily be spent elsewhere until you can see your way to the high priced spread. In the meanwhile what you have is a heck of a preamp that I'm betting will outperform much of the so called SOA gear we all know for a fraction of the price. (If it were me when I was younger and on a modest budget, I'd probably grab this thing, get a used Bryston amp, some Mogami 2549 cables, and be done with it!)

Again, I keep asking myself, what does John Curl know that nobody else seems to know about Audible Illusions?

 

[bonzo75]

Ouch! I hate spending people's money . Didn't you get a demo?

My reasoning behind recommending Soulution (or similar, clean sounding pre is this). I compared the top Einstein pre and the Berning pre with the Quads. For me, what the Berning quads do best is, they sound clean and fast with a lot of transparency and highs, like say Spectral or Soulution, but they have a valve harmonic decay feel to them (naturally, because they have valves in), but without the valve fuzziness. I found that the Einstein added tube confusion, while the Berning pre retained the clarity.

The US distro of Berning recommends the SMc for the same reason, as it does the same thing, better than the Berning pre. The Dartzeel would work too. I have heard Soulution pre sound great with the Tenor 75 OTL and with the Allnic SETs, and it formed a great combination. In the Allnic set up I was able to isolate the Soulution pre and the attributes of very low distortion, quietness, easy rise in music, loads of concert hall ambience and decay, loads of clarity, adding drive to the set up, and separation stood out. So my guess is they will combine well with the Berning Quads, and allow the Bernings to retain their characteristic. Both will be midhall, clear, great highs, decay, not fuzzy, loads of space.

Please let me know if my theory works

 

[morricab]

As long as the subject is preamps, here's one that might be worth exploring.....

Everybody knows that John Curl is a legend. Much to my astonishment he's just designed a new tube phono preamp for Audible Illusions. Why is that interesting? Because Audible Illusions has been around for 30 years and nobody really knows about them!! Or let's put it this way, they're hardly an audiophile household word. I heard their Modulus 3A preamp 30 years ago and never forgot the sound which was superb. (It's when I first heard Cantate Domino and I remember it like yesterday. Stunning choral soundstage and natural as can be. It was one of my first audiophile "epiphany moments".) The AI Modulus 3A has been available used regularly for years for about $2000! It is surely one of the best high end bargains around. It has received constant improvements over the years (separate PS, better components) but nobody even talk about it because its so old! Yet the company is still around. I don't even know if you can find a review that's not 20 years old!

What's really interesting is that John Curl isn't going to waste his time designing a phono stage for just anyone. He obviously knows how good and under-rated Audible Illusion products are.

I'm not sure what's going on with the company as their web site seems to be down (being redesigned?). But some info is below. It appears that their latest update is their 3B preamp (which costs $200 more than the 3A) and seems to be their top of the line. It's got the goods as far as I can tell; Dual-Mono, Class A, Single-Ended Triode, Open Loop (no neg feedback) etc. And oh yeah, it's definitely not a glamour piece.

https://www.lpgear.com/product/AUDIBLEILLUM3B.html

But there's actually a mint 3B on Audiogon now for $2900 with a built in MM phono stage. (Not sure if it can be changed for MC).
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9823b-audible-illusions-m3b-phono
I would not dismiss these preamps quickly for two reasons. First and foremost, despite being utilitarian it's probably a damn fine sounding full function preamp. Second, the money saved could easily be spent elsewhere until you can see your way to the high priced spread. In the meanwhile what you have is a heck of a preamp that I'm betting will outperform much of the so called SOA gear we all know for a fraction of the price. (If it were me when I was younger and on a modest budget, I'd probably grab this thing, get a used Bryston amp, some Mogami 2549 cables, and be done with it!)

Again, I keep asking myself, what does John Curl know that nobody else seems to know about Audible Illusions?

Had a 3A about 12 years ago with John Curl gold phono board (it was SS at that time). Tried to love it, wanted to love it but one listen to a Silvaweld SWC1000 and it was adios amigo. It is simply not transparent enough somehow and was not very open on top.

 

[Number9]

I always thought that Audible Illusions was prime time. In fact during my pursuit I looked more than once at the 3a. Regarding the Soulution,though, in addition to the aforementioned, I also reached out to the US distributor. He was very much in favor of the Soulution and compared very favorably to other viable options.