Lampizator Big 7

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(...) The gain and impedance match is causing more acceptance and rejection than the tube flavor. The tube flavor is second,

Can you explain what is the "gain and impedance match"?
 

microstrip

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No, thats from the Lampi spec sheet, quoted as "Absolute maximum signal volume"

Edit: As measured with KR 45 output tubes, and EML 5U4G recti in place.

Thanks - maximum signal volume is just 0 dB. This means that output has a very low amplitude for a digital device - 16.5dB bellow standard.
 

Alrainbow

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We are filled with passion and do get on each other’s nerves. Having said that there are two paths to Audio euthpia and measuring alone is not one of them.
 

Alrainbow

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It’s both sides of the signwave using inverted psu so they double I. Adding
 

microstrip

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What does that work out at for the balanced outputs then, at 600mV?

IMHO it should still considered low. Many balanced DACs have between 3 and 4.5V output.
 

bonzo75

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We are filled with passion and do get on each other’s nerves. Having said that there are two paths to Audio euthpia and measuring alone is not one of them.

Al, in Britain people are more sarcastic during banter than try are in the US. Justin also honed his skills on some UK forums which were pub brawl variety
 

bonzo75

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Can you explain what is the "gain and impedance match"?

If the Lampi locks on to the pre, the drive and swing of the system increases fantastically. Otherwise it just sounds wimpy or harsh.

This can change as you roll tubes with the same pre, or roll preamps as well. The 242 has high gain so to fit it in, your Lampi might have to be sent back and the gain lowered, depending on system

So, I might think AR Ref 10 is the best pre, but Ime, it does not work well with 242 but does with the special 45s. So a proper choice will be Lampi.242 and a pre it works with, vs special 45s and AR Ref 10 , even if the other pre with other sources is not as good as the AR.

I don't know why these things happen. When I say I compared a Lampi to another dac and Lampi was better, that is because I take these valves along, and change to fit. The other dac can't change, it's static. It is not the flavor, but firing the right valve will drop noise floor, increase stage and decay, bass, dynamics, and drive
 

wisnon

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I gave that some slack in my later post as you have probably read... but to suggest that the 242 is killer above all is unrealistic, I say without having ever tried it. But I have been valve rolling for decades Norman... it is going to be hard to surprise me. I am currently running about 30 valves in total in my system.

I do however accept that some people really, really like it. Fair enough:)

Lol. Fair enuff. Its a great tube...but not perhaps tops for everyone.
 

wisnon

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Thanks - maximum signal volume is just 0 dB. This means that output has a very low amplitude for a digital device - 16.5dB bellow standard.

Huh? Not sure how you get that. The output is far from low.
 

wisnon

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IMHO it should still considered low. Many balanced DACs have between 3 and 4.5V output.

Ok...now I understand you. 2000mv SE standard and 4k for Bal. The gain on the 242 is enormous...cant recall in db now but its far in excess of a 45.
 

bonzo75

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16db more
 

Wookii

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OK, quick update - either putting XLR attenuators inline at the output of the DAC, or engaging headroom management in Roon (-9dB cut), both stop the distortion. So I guess it’s overloading the input on the ML 585 as suspected. Given the max input voltage on the ML 326S that I will be reverting to eventually is more than x2.5 higher (5.5v vs 13.2v) - I’m going to hope I should be able to use the 242’s without an issue and without the headroom management engaged, once I swap to the 326S?
 

microstrip

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If the Lampi locks on to the pre, the drive and swing of the system increases fantastically. Otherwise it just sounds wimpy or harsh.

This can change as you roll tubes with the same pre, or roll preamps as well. The 242 has high gain so to fit it in, your Lampi might have to be sent back and the gain lowered, depending on system

So, I might think AR Ref 10 is the best pre, but Ime, it does not work well with 242 but does with the special 45s. So a proper choice will be Lampi.242 and a pre it works with, vs special 45s and AR Ref 10 , even if the other pre with other sources is not as good as the AR.

I don't know why these things happen. When I say I compared a Lampi to another dac and Lampi was better, that is because I take these valves along, and change to fit. The other dac can't change, it's static. It is not the flavor, but firing the right valve will drop noise floor, increase stage and decay, bass, dynamics, and drive

Thanks. This type behavior is the last thing I would call "gain and impedance match". Gain and impedance match are technical aspects not subjective findings. IMHO people are trying to put some systematics in a process that is purely chaotic.
 

microstrip

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OK, quick update - either putting XLR attenuators inline at the output of the DAC, or engaging headroom management in Roon (-9dB cut), both stop the distortion. So I guess it’s overloading the input on the ML 585 as suspected. Given the max input voltage on the ML 326S that I will be reverting to eventually is more than x2.5 higher (5.5v vs 13.2v) - I’m going to hope I should be able to use the 242’s without an issue and without the headroom management engaged, once I swap to the 326S?

IMHO you should get a test CD with a 1000 Hz 0dB track and a multimeter with RMS AC capability. If you still want to use a high gain tube you can use step down transformers - I have built an unit using Lundhal transformers with -12 attenuation (x .25) for this purpose.
 

wisnon

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As you said...Its just your opinion.

There are systematic things that people do to solve the mismatch, so our opinion is that its not so chaotic after all. Indeed, in the Pac there are 5 switch positions for tube types and the 242 is specifically catered for. No need to compromise like for the GG with only 2 positions.
 

bonzo75

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Thanks. This type behavior is the last thing I would call "gain and impedance match". Gain and impedance match are technical aspects not subjective findings. IMHO people are trying to put some systematics in a process that is purely chaotic.

Ok, gain and impedance mismatch then, how does it matter if the outcome is the same?
 

Alrainbow

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It’s not just solved externally in some casss at least
In my case I feed the lampi dacs SE to my Msb analog input. I also have a volume control on all lampi dacs. The huge sound improvement with an older big 7 to my head dac shows me it’s also. Topology inside as well. Using the volume in the dacs does yield magic on he head dac. I suspect kedar comment is correct it’s a gain and imp situation. I will call Luke of lampi today to ask about fixes. The tube is too good to not use in my head dac. A dac I like more then my big 7.
By the way over the weekend I’ll start posting about the pacific dac as well. It rolls tubes with magic including the 242 tubes. No issues with any tubes I have used.
 

User211

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Justin, you preferred the Amperex for your system in your amp. You, Mark, I, Rob, preferred the Amperex in two amps at Mark's place. No doubt for anyone. Slam dunk.

With 242 you will have similar unanimity. Caveat is it needs to work. I told you, do a trip down to Wales. Or, travel to Liechtenstein, also a great place for a weekend with the wife, and listen to 242 and scintillas.

But till then, You can have 20 more years of experience, what's the point of guessing if you haven't heard the product workinG? You can of course fill in for Keith Purite whom I sorely miss. The tube is worth the chase for a digital based system with a Lampi. Also please appreciate we all have much more advanced models of the Lampi.

There seems to be unanimity in the 242, special 45, PX25 / PX4 hierarchy where it works. Each time someone says he isn't liking one of those tubes, it is actually not working properly in his system. It is either sounding wimpy, flabby, too harsh, etc

There are newer tubes now that I haven't investigated.

The gain and impedance match is causing more acceptance and rejection than the tube flavor. The tube flavor is second,

Bolded bit - Mark said they were totally different to the KRs, I'm not sure he ever said he preferred them. Not sure what Rob thought. Obviously you and I both thought they were streets ahead of the others. Which I think they are. But I wouldn't like to say everyone would.

Valve preference isn't always unanimous and many seem to like valves I simply don't. That is obvious from forum posts and you must have observed that yourself. But it isn't hard to spot trends sometimes i.e. preferences towards certain valves.

I actually don't use PX4 that much. I'm not a huge fan of it, but when I am in the mood for it on the right material I really dig it. On other material I'm just not into it. So while KR valves are OK, they do seem to have a bit of a house sound and I could hear that in the KR 211s. I actually really like the KR 300B you had (in the short time it was plugged in - longer exposure may have changed that), it seemed a bit less hyped than PX4 or their 211.

Anyway, I am short of a Lampi at the moment, but Greg tells me it has been with Lampi since this last Monday. Shouldn't be too long before it comes back but when it does it will be quite significantly different.

Not massively keen on the EML 274B so I sold them. Didn't like the EML 45 solid plate. Though the Lampi Special Edition 45 is very good.

So basically I'm not really that into new production EMLs and KRs as a general rule.
 
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