Lamm ML3 + LL1, at last!

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
6,591
1,003
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Beverly Hills, CA
#21
Congratulations, Francisco!

Now you can enjoy a SET versus high-power, push-pull comparison redux!
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2010
6,135
133
63
La Jolla, Calif USA
#23
Regardless, I have only heard my amps clip once in the years that I have owned it
I think a lot of us would be very surprised at how little power it takes to drive many speakers. For instance, at the excellent and recent demo of the new ARC ref 160 mono amps at Alma audio, it was evident that the amps were not working hard at all...driving the new Wilson Alexia 2's. The gauges on the amps were showing just a few watts at best...and at levels that were easily filling up their huge listening room. (40'+ X30'+?)
Someone once told me that with efficient speakers, 15 watts will be enough to light up a church!

Steve, with your speakers, you must have been listening very loud, or there was a serious dynamic swing to incur any kind of clipping. :oops:
Now, you match the lower powered or flea powered amp to an inefficient speaker with a difficult load characteristic...and you have a very different outcome.
 
Likes: Nascimento
May 30, 2010
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Portugal
#24
Steve, LOL. I don't think you play at anything like 'live' levels ( Thank goodness!) If you go up on stage and play at a 'live' concert level ( which BTW, i always say is a great experience ( if you can get on stage..even if you aren't playing an instrument) ---you really would need ear plugs ( if you value your hearing that is). I remember at your place that you weren't playing too loudly at all ( at least when I visited). Nice volume level, but not unpleasant....as it would be if you were at the 'live' event without earplugs. ( Obviously depending on the type of music...although you would be surprised at how loud even a concert band or orchestra can get when you are up close and personal). Realistic and similar to live--well no. More listenable in the home..yes.IMO.:)
For me live does not mean on stage -my reference for live volume is the level I perceive at my seat during performances. As I am what people call a row E-F listener - for large orchestras row J-K - probably my own reference of live level is not very loud.

Curious to read that your definition of Steve levels - who would listen at unpleasant levels? BTW in my system very loud is not unpleasant - I have tried it for a short period and it is a great experience - not realistic, but fantastic any way. But then the VTL Siegfried is a winner and neighbors next house can suffer ...
 
May 30, 2010
15,433
668
113
Portugal
#25
I think a lot of us would be very surprised at how little power it takes to drive many speakers. For instance, at the excellent and recent demo of the new ARC ref 160 mono amps at Alma audio, it was evident that the amps were not working hard at all...driving the new Wilson Alexia 2's. The gauges on the amps were showing just a few watts at best...and at levels that were easily filling up their huge listening room. (40'+ X30'+?)
Someone once told me that with efficient speakers, 15 watts will be enough to light up a church!

Steve, with your speakers, you must have been listening very loud, or there was a serious dynamic swing to incur any kind of clipping. :oops:
Now, you match the lower powered or flea powered amp to an inefficient speaker with a difficult load characteristic...and you have a very different outcome.
We should be careful , the ARC (and almost all audio power gauges gauges) are decorative. They replace tape reel or turntable hypnotic powers in digital systems ... IMHO Alexia 2´s need power.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
11,681
1,477
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London
#26
It is hardly about peak levels alone. It is about the drive, and the ability to move drivers so that rise and fall of the softer parts also shows a big move, dynamic range. The ease and the flow.
 
May 30, 2010
15,433
668
113
Portugal
#27
It is hardly about peak levels alone. It is about the drive, and the ability to move drivers so that rise and fall of the softer parts also shows a big move, dynamic range. The ease and the flow.
+1!
 

steve williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
#28
For me live does not mean on stage -my reference for live volume is the level I perceive at my seat during performances. As I am what people call a row E-F listener - for large orchestras row J-K - probably my own reference of live level is not very loud.

Curious to read that your definition of Steve levels - who would listen at unpleasant levels? BTW in my system very loud is not unpleasant - I have tried it for a short period and it is a great experience - not realistic, but fantastic any way. But then the VTL Siegfried is a winner and neighbors next house can suffer ...
I can tell you exactly the song that made it clip. And I don’t listen at ear bleeding spl. The song was by Sophie Van Otter on one of the old Burmester reference CD’s Btw like Francisco I listen realistically where I sit. However I feel I am closer to the stage than him
 

asiufy

Member Sponsor
Jul 8, 2011
3,270
312
83
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
#29
We should be careful , the ARC (and almost all audio power gauges gauges) are decorative. They replace tape reel or turntable hypnotic powers in digital systems ... IMHO Alexia 2´s need power.
IMHO, they don't. They *LIKE* power, they don't *REQURE*.
I've driven them using our little Air Tight ATM-1S, 36W of EL34 goodness. With a preamp providing enough gain (ARC REF 10), it was mesmerizing, gorgeous sound, still played loud and clean.


cheers,
alex
 
Likes: Nascimento

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2010
6,135
133
63
La Jolla, Calif USA
#30
For me live does not mean on stage -my reference for live volume is the level I perceive at my seat during performances. As I am what people call a row E-F listener - for large orchestras row J-K - probably my own reference of live level is not very loud.

Curious to read that your definition of Steve levels - who would listen at unpleasant levels? BTW in my system very loud is not unpleasant - I have tried it for a short period and it is a great experience - not realistic, but fantastic any way. But then the VTL Siegfried is a winner and neighbors next house can suffer ...
You would be perhaps surprised at the number of hobbyists that listen at levels that are ..at least imo, bordering on insane.
Possibly because their hearing acuity has fallen off...or maybe they feel that this is how the ‘live’ event sounds. Which it does.....:eek: but you are protecting your ears (hopefully) at the Live event.

Recently, I went to a demo given by Peter McGraph, he tells us that he likes to listen loud...which was an understatement. IMHO, this aspect actually took away from the pleasure of listening to his demo.
Like I said above, on stage, you are wearing ear plugs...in the audience, depending on the kind of music and how far back you are, ear plugs also...At classical and jazz events, ear plugs are not needed. Not to say that the volume leveled at the ‘live’ classical or jazz event are not considerably more than at home...but far less impactful due to the size of the venue.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2010
6,135
133
63
La Jolla, Calif USA
#31
Alex, when we were list
IMHO, they don't. They *LIKE* power, they don't *REQURE*.
I've driven them using our little Air Tight ATM-1S, 36W of EL34 goodness. With a preamp providing enough gain (ARC REF 10), it was mesmerizing, gorgeous sound, still played loud and clean.


cheers,
alex
Alex when we were listening to the Alexia 2’s being driven by the ARC REF 160’s, I think the meters on the amps were barely registering much power at all...I think I remember seeing about Five watts! That in the ultra linear mode.
Clearly the amps had no problem driving the speakers to room filling levels.
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
3,924
449
83
Utah
#32
ML3’s have a lot of ability to drive different speakers and common wisdom doesn’t always apply, I would very much like to know how your Soundlabs work & Sound with it.

david
 

BruceD

VIP/Donor
Dec 13, 2013
985
45
28
#33
Recently, I went to a demo given by Peter McGraph, he tells us that he likes to listen loud...which was an understatement. IMHO, this aspect actually took away from the pleasure of listening to his demo.
.
Ha! So Peter McG likes it loud--funny though I recall when I attended his launch of the Grand Slam X-1's at his Coral Gables Venue some years back

the room was packed obviously for this auspicious occasion--Peter outlined the momentous appreciation of the product and how we were to be

mesmerised and in awe ( well words to that effect!) and the note the attack and outstanding dynamic contrasts/etc we were about to witness

Cue baited breaths inhaling ---and lights down--then the demo music began --

"Away ye broken heart" from Christy Moore's King Puck CD--Umm--thats the sort of track I'm lulling myself to slumber land in the chair with
a glass in hand--ha!

The occupants all were looking around at one another as well-- a funny time--but hey memorable !

As Dylan sings---maybe he's changed "He was so much older than , he's younger than that now"!:cool:

BruceD
 

steve williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
#34
ML3’s have a lot of ability to drive different speakers and common wisdom doesn’t always apply, I would very much like to know how your Soundlabs work & Sound with it.

david
Totally agree and paired with the LL1 it can play very, very loud
 

steve williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
#35
Ha! So Peter McG likes it loud--funny though I recall when I attended his launch of the Grand Slam X-1's at his Coral Gables Venue some years back

the room was packed obviously for this auspicious occasion--Peter outlined the momentous appreciation of the product and how we were to be

mesmerised and in awe ( well words to that effect!) and the note the attack and outstanding dynamic contrasts/etc we were about to witness

Cue baited breaths inhaling ---and lights down--then the demo music began --

"Away ye broken heart" from Christy Moore's King Puck CD--Umm--thats the sort of track I'm lulling myself to slumber land in the chair with
a glass in hand--ha!

The occupants all were looking around at one another as well-- a funny time--but hey memorable !

As Dylan sings---maybe he's changed "He was so much older than , he's younger than that now"!:cool:

BruceD
I agree with Davey

He does like it loud

I was at THE Show when the Alexx was being launched and I was sitting in a great seat when John Atkinson came in and sat in the sweet spot seat. Peter nicely introduced the speaker and then promptly began playing organ music that at times he bragged about the bass to JA as he cranked it higher. All I can say is for my ears, my entire body shook and hurt, so much so that I got up and left. It was unpleasant.
 

steve williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
#36
It's interesting that this forum has a small little group that uses the Lamm Signature line.

I've said before that they are keepers in my system.

So micro are you keeping your eyes open for an LP1 Signature. It is very impressive
 
May 30, 2010
15,433
668
113
Portugal
#37
ML3’s have a lot of ability to drive different speakers and common wisdom doesn’t always apply, I would very much like to know how your Soundlabs work & Sound with it.

david

I promise you than when the system is settled the Soundlab's will return in the room for a few auditions!
 
Likes: ddk
May 30, 2010
15,433
668
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Portugal
#38
(...) So micro are you keeping your eyes open for an LP1 Signature. It is very impressive
Not yet - the Lamm's must prove their sonic value with digital! :)
So far they are being quite successful.
 

steve williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
#40
Not yet - the Lamm's must prove their sonic value with digital! :)
So far they are being quite successful.

When I bought the Signature series I did not have a turntable so I know what you mean by prove themselves with digital so I bought the LP1 separately a few years later
 

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