Kuzma Stabi R compared to a Garrard 301/401??

[No Regrets]

very tempted to try a 300b on my O's as well....I love magnaquest iron, am patiently waiting for something to pop up with MQ iron....one day!!

At one time, I had a great pair of Wavelength Cardinal Single Ended 300B mono amp's with NOS Western Electric tubes that used big massive Magnequest Iron. Those were some great amps, largely impart I believe due to the fantastic iron being used.

Best wishes,
Don

 

[No Regrets]

In order:

1. I did not experiment in detail with the feet before and after mostly because the table weighs so much it is no small effort to get them on the feet centered. I did switch racks too and the combo seems to have cleaned the sound up.

2. I investigated the J.Sikora Initial series. it was really not about any issues with the Sikora, more about the clean lines and simplicity of the Kuzma, coupled with good dealer support and Kuzma’s sterling reputation for responsiveness. I really loved the look of the wood base but in doing research, I felt the arm wing was much more stout and inert than the wood plinth and arm board.

3. I was sold on the four point so it was always going to be that arm. I paused at paying the premium for the VTA tower on the 11 vs the 9, but quite glad I chose the 11. The convenience is desirable.

The Standard Max looks quite impressive though a bit busy in comparison to the Stabi R. I was trying to keep my budget close to $21k and still wanted the choice of a second tone arm for fun. I like how clean and uncluttered the Stabi R is on my rack.

My amp and preamp are built by Paul Birkeland, a designer and master tech for Bottlehead, and a close friend. I’ve always wanted to try a 300b preamp and Paul designed this lovely version using NOS Magnaquest nickel transformers. I tried many 300b and 2A3 amps before settling on these mono build that use Magnaquest nickel iron, and large Mundorf silver/gold foil oil caps. They work so well with the Devore. Paul has brought many exotic amps over, more than 12 different designs, and these work the best. I prefer them over the usual name brands, though I did hear a pair of Airtight 211 mono amps that sounded terrific. Paul is working on an 833 design and nearly done and I suspect those will be impressive.

Thank you so much for your very detailed reply!
I think that you made some fantastic choices and have a magnificent system
Best wishes,
Don

 

[No Regrets]

Wood plinth. We absolutely advise against this option and we can explain why we consider this to upset the performance of an otherwise solid design.

Thom is without a doubt, a very great guy and a true asset to the audiophile community.
I wish that if he is willing to put "....We absolutely advise against this option and we can explain why we consider this to upset the performance of an otherwise solid design." on his website... that he would finish what his thoughts are in regards to the wooden base into words.

He is the only one that I have ever read, stating any sort of disappointment in the sound of the wooden plinth for the Stabi R. In fact, I have read several people here on the forum that have said that they have either not heard any difference between the wood vs regular or people actually preferred the sound of the wood.

Would you be willing to share your thoughts or the thoughts that Thom maybe shared with you about the Stabi R Wood? I truly am curious.

I had spent some time with the Stabi R Wood on each of the three days during the AXPONA Show last year and thought it sounded really nice. I'm hoping I can do the same again in a couple of weeks at this years show!

Best wishes,
Don

 

[Oracle1974]

Thom is without a doubt, a very great guy and a true asset to the audiophile community.
I wish that if he is willing to put "....We absolutely advise against this option and we can explain why we consider this to upset the performance of an otherwise solid design." on his website... that he would finish what his thoughts are in regards to the wooden base into words.

He is the only one that I have ever read, stating any sort of disappointment in the sound of the wooden plinth for the Stabi R. In fact, I have read several people here on the forum that have said that they have either not heard any difference between the wood vs regular or people actually preferred the sound of the wood.

Would you be willing to share your thoughts or the thoughts that Thom maybe shared with you about the Stabi R Wood? I truly am curious.

I had spent some time with the Stabi R Wood on each of the three days during the AXPONA Show last year and thought it sounded really nice. I'm hoping I can do the same again in a couple of weeks at this years show!

Best wishes,
Don

Don, I have only read what is there on the website and was always curious to know why Thom is making such a statement. I am currently using the Stabi S with 4P 9. If I were to upgrade, I would go for the Stabi R. My correspondence with him has only been on the Stabi S.
Since you are contemplating the Stabi R, I thought I should share this information with you in case you had not seen it.

Since you have heard it multiple times and hear no difference, you should trust your ears and go for it. The wood plinth looks very good in pictures.

 

[No Regrets]

Since you have heard it multiple times and hear no difference, you should trust your ears and go for it. The wood plinth looks very good in pictures.

I certainly agree with your sentiment, but I've only heard the Stabi R Wood, never the aluminum version. What I had meant to say previously was that there have been several reports by others that have heard both versions and they did not hear any difference, and at least one had said that they preferred the sound of the wood version. That's why I was very curious on what Thom's thoughts were on this.

Best wishes,
Don

 

[Davehg]

I’ll ask Thom myself but let me hazard a guess. If you’ve seen the wood plinth, the portion of the plinth for the arm mount looks to be about an inch thick of walnut. Compare to the arm wing which probably weighs a good 10bs or more - I was quite surprised at the weight. I would guess the wood arm word has a warmer resonant sound than the much better damped aluminum wing. I got the sense that wood was offered because of customer interest in a wood option. I know I loved the look of it. But I opted for the aluminum wing as I suspected it would yield better performance.

 

[No Regrets]

I’ll ask Thom myself but let me hazard a guess. If you’ve seen the wood plinth, the portion of the plinth for the arm mount looks to be about an inch thick of walnut. Compare to the arm wing which probably weighs a good 10bs or more - I was quite surprised at the weight. I would guess the wood arm word has a warmer resonant sound than the much better damped aluminum wing. I got the sense that wood was offered because of customer interest in a wood option. I know I loved the look of it. But I opted for the aluminum wing as I suspected it would yield better performance.

Hi Dave,

If you have the opportunity to ask Thom about his thoughts on the wood plinth and could share that with us, that would be great and very much appreciated.

I wouldn't doubt that the manner in which the entirety of a turntable is designed - structurally, parts/materials, weight, rigidity, etc all may play a roll in the sound the table may have. Good, bad or indifferent.

I've only had the pleasure of hearing the Stabi R wood version so far. I have never heard the aluminum version, let alone side by side with the wood version in the same system, with same arm/cartridge, etc. However, I must say that I did enjoy listening to the wood version at the AXPONA Show last year. Imho, the wood version does look great in pictures and even better in the flesh... but I've always been a sucker for a beautiful wooden plinth. I'll try and upload a pic of my custom LP12/Naim ARO/Benz Ruby Zebra Wood MC that utilizes a Brazilian Rosewood Plinth that I absolutely love and have never grown tired of looking at



I would imagine that it is entirely possible for the wooden plinth of the Stabi R to add a certain degree of warmth or resonant coloration to the overall sound from the table. Just as I would imagine that other materials being used in various parts of turntables would offer possibly a different type of coloration, whether it's a plinth made from aluminum or slate; or a platter from delrin, copper, acrylic or various metals; or a tonearm made from various types of wood, or carbon fiber or metals; in which to some listeners may feel that the colorations may sound hard or sterile; dull or lifeless; or warm and full of emotions, etc.

So, I guess at the end of the day, we all try to find gear that will synergistically match the rest of our system and our individualistic musical tastes based on the types of music we most listen too.

I would imagine, for many people we would like all of our gear to be neutral, so as to be able to just hear what was in the grooves. However, is that even possible? Everything imparts a sound of it's own throughout the entire chain. The table, the cartridge, the tone arm, the interconnects, the phono stage, the pre-amp, the amplifier, the transistors, j-fets, SUT's, vacuum tubes, the output transformers, the resistors and capacitors, the speakers, the crossovers, the on and on and on.....

For me, if a system is going to error.... I'd personally like it to error on being a little warm vs cool, with a little more resonance vs being sterile; a little more liquid vs being hard, having more emotions vs being dull or lifeless. ( Please know and understand that I am not in any way saying the aluminum version of the Stabi R is hard, dull or lifeless vs the wood version ) I am just talking in a very general sense with very broad brush strokes, of any turntable so to speak.

Maybe I lean the way that I do, because I love hearing the resonance and the body of my Montagnana cello when I'm playing it. ( I'll try and attach a pic of it below) Just as the design, structure, and materials play an important role when building audio equipment; so it does as well with musical instruments. The type of woods used for the front, ribs, back, neck, pegs, etc of a stringed instrument greatly affects the sound it will project. No different from the types of metals used in the lead pipe, slide, bell, etc of my tenor and bass trombones. These differences play a role in the sound that I want to achieve depending on whether I'm playing in a small jazz combo, or in a big band, or in a symphony orchestra. Or the type of projection I'll need if I'm playing in a small intimate club or in a big hall. It all comes down to that Synergy thing that we were talking about earlier.






In any case, I always love to learn from my fellow forum members in what they are hearing from the various equipment out there, and from their thoughts and experiences. We are blessed that we are living in a world in which we have so much to chose from.... but it is also somewhat difficult for many of us (or at least for me) to be able to actually hear and compare everything that I would love to be able to.

Wowza... I really drifted off there on some tangents, lol.
Sorry for being so long winded.

Wishing you all the very best!
Don

 

[Davehg]

Wow, what a beautiful cello.I can guess it sounds magnificent. I play (or rather hack away) on several vintage ukes, including a 1960s koa wood KK and a more recent mahogany Martin Concert. They all sound lovely and unique, and I love their differences.

i‘ve already got a warmer setup with an all tube (except for the Lumin), and there’s such a thing as too much warmth. I’m just at the edge of that, and probably past it on my Leben LS3/5a system. I still love it, however.

 

[noromance]

I AM a geologist and I call bs. A quick search shows slate has a density of 2.7-2.8 gm/cc which means there’s a 3.6% difference between the low and high of the range. My science brain screams “marketing ploy.”

The roofing industry refers to two qualities of slate for roof tiles: hard and soft. Hard and soft are attributes of the slate at different mining locations. The composition and age of slate varies. Not to be too trite, but your comment is reminiscent of electrical engineers claiming there's no difference in wire, or quality of electricity at your board.

 

[No Regrets]

Wow, what a beautiful cello.I can guess it sounds magnificent.

Thank you, Dave! Yes, fortunately my cello sounds even more beautiful than it looks. It truly amazes me and oftentimes gives me goosebumps when I play it. I never grow tired of it

I play (or rather hack away) on several vintage ukes, including a 1960s koa wood KK and a more recent mahogany Martin Concert. They all sound lovely and unique, and I love their differences.

Yes, exactly... that is the point that I was trying to make in my post above. Instruments are very similar to audio gear. The structure of it, how it is built, the components/materials, etc... it all plays an important role in how it will sound, whether it's a musical instrument or a piece of hifi gear.

You absolutely nailed it when you say... "They all sound lovely and unique, and I love their differences."

i‘ve already got a warmer setup with an all tube (except for the Lumin), and there’s such a thing as too much warmth. I’m just at the edge of that, and probably past it on my Leben LS3/5a system. I still love it, however.

You have two really fantastic audio systems I can only imagine the immense amount of musical enjoyment you get from both of your systems. Yes, it is possible for an audio system to go too far in either direction - whether it be too warm or too cool. That's where the "system synergy" comes into play. I guess that at the end of the day, the hope is that "we" as individuals love "our" system/s and that they sound "right" to us and that we get the enjoyment that we have sought after. That is what truly matters

Best wishes,
Don

 

[Adagio]

Hi Dave,

You have an amazing system there! I love your Stabi R with 4pt, your custom 300B amp looks very nice (can you share more about the details of that?), your Devore O's look gorgeous! I can only imagine the big grin on your face every time you listen!

I'm curious......

1. Did you compare the sound with using the Kuzma "feet" vs not using the "feet"? Did you notice a big difference? What differences did you hear?

2. You mentioned that you had considered J. Sikora when looking for your next turntable. Which J. Sikora model did you consider? What about the J. Sikora did you not like? And/Or, what was it about the Stabi R that you liked better about the J Sikora?

3. When you considered the J. Sikora table... would you have been using the Kuzma arm or the Sikora arm with it?

I'm asking these questions, because I am considering both the Stabi R Wood and the J. Sikora (either the Standard Max or the Reference Line) for my next table. I'm hoping to spend more time with both the Kuzma and the Sikora in a couple of weeks at the AXPONA Show near Chicago, but I still love to hear experiences and thoughts from people like yourself who actually either own or have spent considerable time with these great tables.

Best wishes,
Don

I use the StabiR with the feet. I already had the feet when I bought the R. I used them with my StabiS. So I never compared with or without, and was to lazy to lift this heavy bugger to try. Anyway I did a while back and with the feet, sound is more detailed and relaxed, almost as a vail is lifted, also the soundstage are much more solid, bass more nuanced. So yes feet’s are good.
Although I recommend using them on a shelf to make the TT more stable, when standing directly on them the TT is somewhat top heavy, if the feet are put broader and wider you get more stability.
So I used mine to build a Platis DIY. Of course the Platis probably is better but I already had the feet’s so. I used three stainless steel shelves where the top shelf was compounded by two steel sheets and bitumen in between.
Under the cones I used a solid brass cup to keep the TT from sliding.

 

[Adagio]

I really love StabiR had it for a couple of years. You can’t go wrong with it. Haven’t decided what sides I will use yet, I bought it without the metal sides because my intention was to let a carpenter make sides of some nice wood or perhaps make them in acrylic ore brass. Haven’t come around to do anything yet, just enjoying the TT in its industrial naked look.
I can’t recommend the screw down clamp enough though. Bought it a week ago and I’m really impressed how well it flattened records and improved sound.

 

[Davehg]

Agree on the clamp. I have a similar setup on my VPI prime but it doesn’t seem to flatten as well

 

[mtemur]

Agree on the clamp. I have a similar setup on my VPI prime but it doesn’t seem to flatten as well

screw down clamps or heavy clamps require a washer on spindle to flatten the record.

 

[Adagio]

screw down clamps or heavy clamps require a washer on spindle to flatten the record.

Washer included.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Washer included.

What is the outer diameter and thickness of the washer ?
Is it made of metal i.e. aluminum or some kind of plastic ?
Thought there would be two washers of different thicknesses i.e. a thicker one for 180g records and a thinner one for 120g records ! ?

 

[kozzmo]

What is the outer diameter and thickness of the washer ?
Is it made of metal i.e. aluminum or some kind of plastic ?
Thought there would be two washers of different thicknesses i.e. a thicker one for 180g records and a thinner one for 120g records ! ?

they are aluminum and there are 2 different thicknesses included with the kuzma....they are about the size of your thumb and index finger doing the "ok" sign.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

they are aluminum and there are 2 different thicknesses included with the kuzma....they are about the size of your thumb and index finger doing the "ok" sign.

Do you know the exact outer diameter and thickness measurements 'kozzmo' ?

 

[kozzmo]

Do you know the exact outer diameter and thickness measurements 'kozzmo' ?

45mm diameter, 1.5mm and 2mm thicknesses