KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

[Al M.]

Natural: lack of telltale electronic signature that signals a “synthetic “ quality to the perception. Doesn’t have to be “neutral” as this is often a label given to systems that are full of those telltale sonic signatures, such as a grayish tonality and flat dimensionality.

Very much agreed. However, you need a reference for that. Yet if you don't attend concerts of unamplified live music with sufficient frequency such reference is lacking.

One caveat: we all listen differently. Thus, even two experienced listeners to unamplified live music may not even agree if something sounds natural or not. But that experience is a good start that should narrow the field of disagreements.

 

[morricab]

Very much agreed. However, you need a reference for that. Yet if you don't attend concerts of unamplified live music with sufficient frequency such reference is lacking.

One caveat: we all listen differently. Thus, even two experienced listeners to unamplified live music may not even agree if something sounds natural or not. But that experience is a good start that should narrow the field of disagreements.

Live unamplified always sounds natural...how could it sound any other way?

 

[Folsom]

Live unamplified always sounds natural...how could it sound any other way?

It sounds like however it was recorded an engineered. That doesn't directly mean natural. It could be utter garbage.

 

[morricab]

It sounds like however it was recorded an engineered. That doesn't directly mean natural. It could be utter garbage.

You completely missed it...we were talking about live and not recoreded

 

[bonzo75]

Recorded live stuff only sounds natural when recorded using all tube equipment (ortofon lyrec etc) and played back through tubes and efficient speakers.

Edit: imo

 

[the sound of Tao]

It’s interesting that some threads wander and lose the plot and just create noise... yet others unfold and create an interesting signal all the way along as they weave and weft. Similar to Tang’s thread Keith’s speaker search here has taken a lot of turns but there is plenty of great discussion that has come through it.

I wonder if the quality of the intent of the original post and it’s underlying purpose plays out in this. Threads that seem to start with a strong sense of simple open purpose and positive potential shared meaning at the core of their origination might just innately have a greater life and richness in them. OPs that clearly start out essentially seeking conflict and that lack a transparent and positively authentic spirit, the OPs trawling agendas or just being pointlessly polarising or sensationalist without also seeking to bring us together in some greater perspective based shared understanding often seem to end up torturously derailed and full of sound and fury but never to then come to any greater resolve.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hmm, Keith is going thru a few broken sleep patterns before finding that dream spkr, and a nice uninterrupted sleep dreaming of sheep.

 

[KeithR]

Well, you guys might find this pretty cool- John Devore will be with the Orangutan Reference in DTLA next weekend! I'm attending.

 

[morricab]

Well, you guys might find this pretty cool- John Devore will be with the Orangutan Reference in DTLA next weekend! I'm attending.

Curious what you think...I didn’t like it much in Munich...was kind of boring...

 

[bonzo75]

Curious what you think...I didn’t like it much in Munich...was kind of boring...

It wasn't sounding good at Munich and the amps and room both wrong imo. Doesn't mean it is not good

 

[morricab]

It wasn't sounding good at Munich and the amps and room both wrong imo. Doesn't mean it is not good

Means I am not that likely to give it a second look...except at another show...Too many choices to waste time on those that can't get a decent setup at the most important show in the world.

 

[morricab]

It wasn't sounding good at Munich and the amps and room both wrong imo. Doesn't mean it is not good

Something that sounded really good that didn't cost so much was the new open baffle speaker from Supravox. It is 10K Euro and a LOT of speaker for the money.

 

[bonzo75]

Means I am not that likely to give it a second look...except at another show...Too many choices to waste time on those that can't get a decent setup at the most important show in the world.

That is hardly a criteria. In many cases YouTube is better to evaluate speakers than Munich. To really know how bad Munich can get, one has to evaluate components not liked at Munich outside Munich. That shows the difference

 

[morricab]

That is hardly a criteria. In many cases YouTube is better to evaluate speakers than Munich. To really know how bad Munich can get, one has to evaluate components not liked at Munich outside Munich. That shows the difference

Life is too short for that...get it right at the most important show or pack it up and go home.

 

[bonzo75]

Life is too short for that...get it right at the most important show or pack it up and go home.

That's a judgement on the dealer/manufacturer, not component.

Not to mention that many good components take time to set up, something not available at a show. And all components need a certain environment, either in terms of associated equipment or room or both, that is not up to choice at a show

 

[sujay]

God help those who make a purchase decision based on what they hear in Munich. One mustn’t forget that Munich is out of bounds for most but the top echelon manufacturers/dealers. Coupled with that the fact that most rooms aren’t optimized for listening despite the dealer being committed to making it work. And guess what, the ones who can afford to show at Munich finally price the mktng cost into the product retail price. So the buyer ends up paying for it.

In effect, there are a host of great products that don’t even find their way into Munich but are probably more worthy of the buyer’s overtures. So imagine what we are actually missing!

 

[morricab]

God help those who make a purchase decision based on what they hear in Munich. One mustn’t forget that Munich is out of bounds for most but the top echelon manufacturers/dealers. Coupled with that the fact that most rooms aren’t optimized for listening despite the dealer being committed to making it work. And guess what, the ones who can afford to show at Munich finally price the mktng cost into the product retail price. So the buyer ends up paying for it.

In effect, there are a host of great products that don’t even find their way into Munich but are probably more worthy of the buyer’s overtures. So imagine what we are actually missing!

No one said anything about a buying decision based on Munich results. I think from Munich it is to get ideas about what you might want to consider later on and that is new and exotic...

 

[morricab]

That's a judgement on the dealer/manufacturer, not component.

Not to mention that many good components take time to set up, something not available at a show. And all components need a certain environment, either in terms of associated equipment or room or both, that is not up to choice at a show

Perhaps but you cannot decouple the two...unless the sound is beautiful and then you can say maybe both the product and the setup were good. If it is bad or meh, then how to know. I just prefer to say it was not interesting to me and leave it at that. I heard plenty of good sounding rooms that deserved interest...many of which were far more complicated to set up properly and yet it was managed...

 

[sujay]

No one said anything about a buying decision based on Munich results

and I didn’t say anyone did either. I just made a statement from my own experience, which was mutually exclusive.
Sure one does get ideas about what one might want to explore later on but imagine these two scenarios
1) you didn’t like what’s you heard in Munich so you wouldn’t want to explore it in any case and well could lose out on exploring something that could have been worthwhile
2) for every component that does get exposure at Munich there are multiples more which don’t but are otherwise worthy of further exploration.

 

[KeithR]

Life is too short for that...get it right at the most important show or pack it up and go home.

Well I heard Odeon sucked this year at Munich from several people - guess nobody should ever consider them

I think you put far too much stock in what sounds good or bad at Munich. Devore sounds badass at my dealer and in my home - its worth hearing his reference in an optimized non-show environment. To say that's a waste of time is silly.