. . . I had the big multi-way Infinity IRS Betas . . .
Hello Brad,
I did not know you had infinity Betas! What did you used to drive those speakers?
. . . I had the big multi-way Infinity IRS Betas . . .
Carmel 2 must not be in the 'dual coherent' class of YG then. Haha.
Not according to me... according to JA from stereophile, an independent measurement...I never take claims from manufacturers at face value ...nor should you.Sure, according to morricab and you then, they're not. According to Yoav Geva, they are. I know who I trust more, as far as engineering knowledge.
Not according to me... according to JA from stereophile, an independent measurement...I never take claims from manufacturers at face value ...nor should you.
Indeed I did. I had aGolden Tube Audio 100 watt PP EL34 based amp in the panels and Moon W5 on the bass.Hello Brad,
I did not know you had infinity Betas! What did you used to drive those speakers?
Did you look at the step response? It cannot be time coherent with that step response. That test tells all about time coherence. It should look like a right triangle. Go look at Thiel or Vandersteen if you want to see time coherent...Nowhere does JA make the claim that YOU did.
Here's his conclusion:
"Overall, the YGA Carmel 2's measured performance indicates impressive engineering, both in the overall system design and in the proprietary drive-units. That quasi-anechoic response is one of the flattest I have ever measured, rivaled only by YGA's Sonja 1.3 and KEF's Blade Two. But choosing the optimal low-frequency alignment for a relatively small two-way design is always tricky. The Carmel 2 maximizes low-frequency transparency and articulation at the expense of body to its sound.—John Atkinson"
Further evidence: Look at the plot of impedance and phase. Right around the crossover there is a phase shift from nearly +45 degrees to about -45 degrees. Then look at the individual driver plots. The crossover point is -6db and the slope is much steeper than you would get for a 1st order xover. All of this indicates a non-first order crossover...something that is necessary for time coherence.Nowhere does JA make the claim that YOU did.
Here's his conclusion:
"Overall, the YGA Carmel 2's measured performance indicates impressive engineering, both in the overall system design and in the proprietary drive-units. That quasi-anechoic response is one of the flattest I have ever measured, rivaled only by YGA's Sonja 1.3 and KEF's Blade Two. But choosing the optimal low-frequency alignment for a relatively small two-way design is always tricky. The Carmel 2 maximizes low-frequency transparency and articulation at the expense of body to its sound.—John Atkinson"
Guys, you are arguing past each other. I've asked Yoav in person about this - phase is maintained only through the crossover region. His "dualcoherent" secret sauce is related to this and never claims to be a fully time and phase coherent loudspeaker from 20hz-20khz.
Speaking of, I don't like Thiels (bright) or Vandys (sleepy) so its not critical to my decision point. My Devores aren't this way either of course as we discussed above.
The crossover region is where it matters anyway. The only thing truly phase, transient, and time coherent was the insturment/voice itself.
Guys, you are arguing past each other. I've asked Yoav in person about this - phase is maintained only through the crossover region. His "dualcoherent" secret sauce is related to this and never claims to be a fully time and phase coherent loudspeaker from 20hz-20khz.
Speaking of, I don't like Thiels (bright) or Vandys (sleepy) so its not critical to my decision point. My Devores aren't this way either of course as we discussed above.
I simply preferred the Devore Gibbon X to my Definition IV, and traded them in for a pair. I like the more modern sound, although will always enjoy Zu and Sean Casey is a personal friend. In fact, 213Cobra's long awaited Druid VI review is coming out soon and I can't wait to hear them again in an optimized system (he's tried 8 amps now).
Keith,
Thanks for the update. I think 'modern' sound is kind of subjective here. Yes, I fully agree that there are a lot of speakers with supertweeters that go much higher then the current Zu offerings but how much is too much and can we even hear this far up ?
Regarding Devore, I auditioned the O/96 as I heard great things about it and was not impressed especially at that price. The tonal balance of Supreme is much better to my ears and the Radian is just sublime.
. . . Sean Casey is an awesome guy and his amazing customer service is one of main reasons I'm so happy with Zu . . .
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