KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

[Pallen]

Spendor D9.2- That tweeter, however, still raises some concerns. Compared to my previous Devores, I'd say the Spendors had better bass, but missed some vividness and refinement that the Gibbons provided -

My experience exactly Keith. For me, the tweeter was too obvious and hot, and I paid the extra for the Gibbon X with a top end that I found significantly more refined and musical.

I've enjoyed reading your latest speaker reviews and I'd be interested to hear what you think of the Tannoy Canterbury.

 

[KeithR]

Sonus Faber Il Cremonese:

I have a confession to make - I've never heard a SF speaker I've enjoyed. From my early audiophile days at Harvey's in NYC listening to the Concerto monitor (made of solid walnut, no less) through the Cremona in LA and even the Strad at shows and other top of the line Serblin creations. They were always warm and cuddly to me.

But the reference line started with the Aida 7-8 years ago was a change in a different direction for the company and something I've wanted to hear. Local auditions of the SF are usually on lower tier speakers, so I'd given up trying. However, after my move to Encino I just happened to be near a SF dealer - and sure enough a quick phone call allowed an audition of the Il Cremonese. The IC is the "entry level" floorstander in the reference line. It is quite complicated, a 3.5 way with dedicated non-active "infra woofers". The speakers were well setup in a fully treated room, on McIntosh TOL tube preamp and 611 amplifiers. Mc/SF is a very common combo so I was satisfied!

My initial thought were that the ICs were far more open than prior SFs - no more warm and cuddly sound here. Everything seemed very coherent despite 6-7 drivers which surprised me. You can really sink into the music. I went through 2 solid hours of demo music - everything from big classical to female singer/guitar. The ICs had really good flow on music - and the orchestra really felt right in front of you, but not highligting the imaging as others, but that's something I've never cared about. Timbre on instruments was excellent. You could feel that woodwinds had body, guitar strings weren't truncated, and that brass had the appropriate round, brashness. This of course was particularly noticeable on classical and I dare say, this is the best speaker I've heard on that genre of music.

There was no spotlighting of frequency in the musical spectrum, but the sound was musical. The top end was natural and extended - something SFs have not done before. Bass on these speakers was more of the definition type rather than output. I did wish for more umph and extension on certain music but I feel the dual 8" infrawoofers pushed as much air as possible. Moving to dynamics - orchestral tuttis were excellent, but I found that classical guitar didn't leap off the soundstage as on other efficient speakers. I seemed to turn up the volume as a result. I think this is right in line with Sonus Faber's character - musical expression without fatigue but definitely not horn like. Soundstage was good, but not the largest I've heard - again this is a speaker about flow and tone first.

Overall i really enjoyed my time with the Il Cremonese and the audition got better as I went through track after track. If you go back to the original demos I've had at this price level, I would put the Reference Line above the Wilsons and Rockports. They didn't have the fuzziness of the Gamut, another speaker in the "musical" camp. They are far more open, transparent, but still retain the SF musical nature. Highly recommended.

 

[KeithR]

 

[rbbert]

I had the chance to listen to Aida's with Mac electronics, about a 45 minute listening session a few years ago at HiFi Hawaii. For the price I expected to be impressed, but I thought they were a bit better than that, even using only CD's (on the high-end Mac SACD/CD player) as a source.

 

[KeithR]

Next stop on KeithRs speaker train is shaping up to be the Fyne Audio F1-12. This is a new company from the original Tannoy design team. More modern, interesting bass implementation, etc. than the Prestige line I’ve heard. Should be fun.

 

[Mdp632]

@KeithR I thought your search was over ? Or, are you selling the YGs?

 

[MadFloyd]

Oh I’d love to hear your impressions of the Fynes once you've heard them. Beautiful speakers.

 

[drrsutliff]

I also am looking forward to your impressions. I listened to one of the Fynes for a short time at the Florida Audio Show last year, but not in an optimized situation. I have Spendor D9s and they have required a lot of conscientious equipment choices. Their top end will reveal any upstream issues with a little bit of exuberance. Once setup and equipment is optimized the D9‘s presentation, in my 14’ x 16’ room, is very enjoyable.

 

[KeithR]

@KeithR I thought your search was over ? Or, are you selling the YGs?

i'm just having fun hearing more stuff. call it intellectual curiosity. also hope at this point people find my feedback valuable.

 

[KeithR]

As far as my own system, I am quite satisfied with the LTA/Ampzilla synergy for the Haileys. I tried the Fern & Roby phono stage recently as it’s a collaboration with LTA and David Berning - but had an incompatibility. The company has been very good to deal with and is giving me a full refund.

I also swapped to an EMT HSD-006 cartridge which has been a nice upgrade over my 47 Labs, which basically bit the dust. Vivid and dynamic with excellent decay. Highly recommended for $1595, a pittance in today’s high $ analog world.

My digital rig has been long set with the Innuos/MSB combination - going on 3 years now. I don’t anticipate changes there for some time.

 

[JayR]

I just read this whole thread. Incredible journey. I commend you for taking the time to listen to all these different speakers to achieve your stated goals. You also called everything like you heard it. It was refreshing.

This thread was also illuminating for me since I have some similar desires with speakers (vocals, tonality, non fatiguing etc..) I am currently using a modest system with Audio Physic Virgo 25, Devialet D200, Rega RP6 and a Sony HAPZ1ES streamer. It’s been a nice system but am planning on trying other gear.

The Sonus Fabre Il Cremonese is one that I am planning to listen to. You had also mentioned that you were trying out the Boenicke W13SE. Did I miss your report? I heard the small W8 in NYC last year and really liked it.

All along this thread, the one thing that seemed to be missing was any discussion on how wide or narrow the sweet spot at the listening position is. Doesn‘t that matter? My preference is a wide spot as we tend to listen to music as a family sitting in our living room. I am curious to hear what you think.

Best.

 

[TDX]

Hi I’m a bit late to join your journey, what is the pre and amp you choose to suit with your YG?

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

The best listening experience for stereo is achieved when the distance between the speakers and each of them to the listener is the same, forming an equilateral triangle between the two speakers and the listener, with 60 degrees angle in each corner. These are some ground rules we should take into account, but it is also important to bear in mind that other factors such as room size, acoustics/sound isolation, room layout, speaker placement will affect the actual sound. With smaller rooms, the triangle will automatically be smaller and the sound will seem more intimate but usually at the cost of a more spacious soundstage which requires a bit of distance in order to unfold. Say, you decide to establish a 3-metre-long distance between the speakers, then the distance between the sweet spot (the tip of the triangle) and the midpoint between the two stereo speakers should be 2.61m. They should also be at ear level and not equidistant between the floor and ceiling. But you should not worry too much about this point with Virgo 25. The distance between the back wall and your listening spot should be 38% of the way into the room.

When it comes to the speaker design, there are no parallel surfaces inside a Virgo 25. Its three-dimensional structure covers the internal walls to help diffuse backwaves, significantly increasing the SQ.

Answering your question, theoretically, the sweet spot is located in the tip of the triangle, so by default it cannot be very wide, but listening should be fun, so do not let the pursuit of the sweet spot take the enjoyment away. Try different arrangements with your sofa/chairs and see what works best for you.

 

[JayR]

Appreciate the information in the reply.

How do the off-axis dispersion characteristics on the horizontal and vertical planes affect the sweet spot? My understanding is that even dispersion without peaks and dips on these 2 axis would result is a wide sweet spot. Is that correct?

 

[KeithR]

Hi I’m a bit late to join your journey, what is the pre and amp you choose to suit with your YG?

No worries- Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL preamp + Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition

 

[KeithR]

I just read this whole thread. Incredible journey. I commend you for taking the time to listen to all these different speakers to achieve your stated goals. You also called everything like you heard it. It was refreshing.

This thread was also illuminating for me since I have some similar desires with speakers (vocals, tonality, non fatiguing etc..) I am currently using a modest system with Audio Physic Virgo 25, Devialet D200, Rega RP6 and a Sony HAPZ1ES streamer. It’s been a nice system but am planning on trying other gear.

The Sonus Fabre Il Cremonese is one that I am planning to listen to. You had also mentioned that you were trying out the Boenicke W13SE. Did I miss your report? I heard the small W8 in NYC last year and really liked it.

All along this thread, the one thing that seemed to be missing was any discussion on how wide or narrow the sweet spot at the listening position is. Doesn‘t that matter? My preference is a wide spot as we tend to listen to music as a family sitting in our living room. I am curious to hear what you think.

Best.

Thanks! I try to call it like it is (to my ears). I almost bought Virgo IIIs many moons ago - great speaker brand

I've discussed sweet spot to some extent, but it's not a huge consideration to me. Head in a vice isn't my style though (electrostats). I was surprised the Duo XDs weren't that way.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

i'm just having fun hearing more stuff. call it intellectual curiosity. also hope at this point people find my feedback valuable.

Honestly @KeithR, I think you are doing the community a great service. I enjoy reading your reviews. They are very informative.

 

[JayR]

Keith,

Any chance you are considering listening to the new Magico A5?

Agree with your assessment of the SF Il Cremonese. Our local dealer has one on his floor and I got to listen to it. I found it non fatiguing and more neutral compared to the older lush/thick SF sound. I found it to be a “forget about all audiophile things and just listen to the music” kind of speaker.

 

[VladB]

I had the chance to listen to Aida's with Mac electronics, about a 45 minute listening session a few years ago at HiFi Hawaii. For the price I expected to be impressed, but I thought they were a bit better than that, even using only CD's (on the high-end Mac SACD/CD player) as a source.

I have the Aida’s (first generation)in my city apartment in a fairly small room (listening distance is c.3 meters).

They are excellent speakers - tender, soulful, expressive, extremely vocal, unbelievably natural and coherent even at low listening volumes.

For the EUR/USD 50k at which they sometimes appear on the 2nd hand market they are an incredible bargain.

Highly recommend.

 

[KeithR]

Keith,

Any chance you are considering listening to the new Magico A5?

Agree with your assessment of the SF Il Cremonese. Our local dealer has one on his floor and I got to listen to it. I found it non fatiguing and more neutral compared to the older lush/thick SF sound. I found it to be a “forget about all audiophile things and just listen to the music” kind of speaker.

I've tried various Magicos over the past five years and never found them compelling (dealers, shows, SS, tubes, you name it). They have an analytical balance and aren't as coherent nor dynamic as other brands. I know many love that sound (all about transparency, resolution, and detail) but it's not for me. I would certainly invest in the YG or Il Cremonese before a Magico.