Keith Monks discOveryOne Redux and discOvery micrOlight

[tima]

Apparently these budget Monks RCMs were announced at CES 2017 and went largely unnoticed(? ). Until this review recently at TAB it/they were off my radar. I say budget relative to the famous original Keith Monks circa 1969 which spun off from the ones Monks made for the BBC. Iirc the originals were automated (fluid on, fluid off). These are manual.

https://www.vinyldiscovery.com/discoveryone

Anyone tried or bought one?

Discoveryone Redux - my guess: its a take off or relauch of their earlier Discoveryone.


Discoveryone microlight


Anyone seen one of these - the KM Prodigy?

 

[Cyclotronguy]

Yes, I have a Discovery 1, great machine....
Johnathan Monks demo'd it at RMAF, pleased to support his efforts!

 

[cuntigh]

The motor of my old « classic » went off a few weeks ago after 15 years and thousands of records properly cleaned. This old motor is not built anymore and I didn’t succeed to find a nos one.
Maybe I will try one of these new machines.

 

[jfrech]

I have a Monks Omni. It's been cleaning records for I guess about 7 years now. I will say I used about everything else before this. A VPI, all sorts of fluids, scrubbed, didn't scrub.

After using this machine and his fluid I was done with the merry go round. For a vinyl lover, this is a smart investment. I have friends that bring over their records. Some love their ultrasonic machines. We listen to their record. We put it on the Monks for a few spins. Play it again. It's like a different record.

I don't have any experience with the newer models. But if they perform anything close to what I have...it's a no brainer.

The discovery one pictured above looks to be about the same as what I have. The only possible difference could be the suction pump's power and I'm not ever sure this is a sonic change that you can hear.

 

[TLi]

I use the original Discovery One for a few years now. It works perfectly for me. My preference is on this type of wet and vacuum system over the ultrasonic bath.

The abrasion of groove information is higher with ultrasonic bath. Vinyl will wear away once you manipulate with it. Ultrasonic tends to wear or flatten the micro ridges more which leads to dimming of treble and microdynamics. Keith Monk also wears groove but tends to wear the bigger bass modulation which is less detrimental to the sound.

Vinyl is thixotropic material, shear thinning. If it is shaked, it becomes softer. Records that is cleaned with ultrasonic bath has to rest for a few hours before the normal property is resolved. Otherwise the sound will be dimmed because the record disc is softened. The resting time is less with Keith Monk system because vinyl is less disturbed, usually 30 minutes will be fine. Another advantage for Discovery One.

 

[Folsom]

The abrasion of groove information is higher with ultrasonic bath. Vinyl will wear away once you manipulate with it. Ultrasonic tends to wear or flatten the micro ridges more which leads to dimming of treble and microdynamics. Keith Monk also wears groove but tends to wear the bigger bass modulation which is less detrimental to the sound.

Prove it.

 

[TLi]

Prove it.

If you google ultrasonic cleaning, wikipedia will tell you ultrasonic works on creating cavitation, small air bubble which has high energy. It polishes any surface, hence the cleaning effect. The last thing you want with your groove is to have it polished. The size of cavitation is very small. The sharp edges of treble modulation is first to be flattened.

My friends has done A/B test with two identical records. The one cleaned with ultrasonic bath has dimmer sound than with Keith Monk. One of the reasons was the records were not rested enough and the comparison was made too quickly. But I have a feeling that even after enough waiting, the loss of information is more with ultrasonic.

 

[Folsom]

Your feeling vs everyone else who says pish-posh, including The General? .... I doubt it’s it makes any difference unless you’re cooking it at the same time.

 

[tima]

It [cavitation] polishes any surface, hence the cleaning effect. The last thing you want with your groove is to have it polished.

I don't think "polishing" is the right word.

A lot depends on the frequency of the cavitators, temperature of the water, cleaning solution, and length of exposure time.
You can damage almost any material with ultrasonic waves if you don't know what you're doing, if you use parameters outside the scope of what is safely effective for the material being cleaned. The idea behind the USC RMC is to dislodge dirt and grease, etc. without damage and that can be done. This is not a comment about point-nozzle machines like the Monks.

 

[cuntigh]

I received my Discovery Redux a few days ago and very happy. The last model has no thread and so easyer to deal with that.
So I have my KLAudio and the KM. Maybe it’s stupid. When the Ultra Sonic machine will break I will keep the Redux as my main and only RCM.

 

[Hamburger]

Does anybody use this older KM model launched in 2013?
Discovery One
Is this the same model as what TLi used?

It uses a modified "DJ turntable (Technics?)" and the 2 side panels protrude above the top of the machine.
It is a big machine.
Could somebody comment on its reliability, noise level and ease of use?
I am considering a NOS set. Afterall, it's almost 9 years now.
Thank you.

 

[ddk]

Does anybody use this older KM model launched in 2013?
Discovery One
Is this the same model as what TLi used?

It uses a modified "DJ turntable (Technics?)" and the 2 side panels protrude above the top of the machine.
It is a big machine.
Could somebody comment on its reliability, noise level and ease of use?
I am considering a NOS set. Afterall, it's almost 9 years now.
Thank you.

Supplies have always been a KM problem, get your spares first before buying any machine!

david

 

[Hamburger]

Supplies have always been a KM problem, get your spares first before buying any machine!

david

May I know what spares I need? I only can think of the nylon thread.

 

[ddk]

May I know what spares I need? I only can think of the nylon thread.

I don’t know the exact model you found but typically brushes, floss and washing liquid if want to use theirs.
david

 

[jfrech]

Does anybody use this older KM model launched in 2013?
Discovery One
Is this the same model as what TLi used?

It uses a modified "DJ turntable (Technics?)" and the 2 side panels protrude above the top of the machine.
It is a big machine.
Could somebody comment on its reliability, noise level and ease of use?
I am considering a NOS set. Afterall, it's almost 9 years now.
Thank you.

Hi, I can't comment on this exact model. But I do own a Monks Odyssey, the original type of machine. I bought it new about 10 years ago. It's built like a tank. It's fairly quiet, compared to a VPI machine for example. You can listen to music and clean records...you notice it, but you can talk normally while it's on and vacuuming.

I will say, I have had many friends bring their records by. Cleaned with all sorts of fluids, ultrasonic baths, different vacuum machines etc etc etc. A few spins on the Monks with his fluid, and it always sounds like a different record. It can be startling the before and after.

I have had little issues over the years. A few things have corroded due to the interaction of the fluid over time. A trip to the hardware store quickly replaces these parts. I still have the original spool of thread, I think I have about 20 years of thread left...

 

[cuntigh]

I have the Disc’overy for some times now. Before I had the Classic KM with the thread. I have to say I preferred the old model with the thread.

 

[Hamburger]

I have the Disc’overy for some times now. Before I had the Classic KM with the thread. I have to say I preferred the old model with the thread.

Is your current KM the REDUX threadless version?
May I know why the threaded version is preferred in your view?
The threaded nozzle is a white plastic, while the threadless looks more like a (softer) silicone nozzle to me.

(I have a 12 year old Loricraft PRC-4 that is still functioning well today, but I am considering to add a Keith Monks.)
Wondering which is a better KM to get.
Thanks.

 

[cuntigh]

I will try to explain best as I can in English : with the help of the wire, the arm slides more easily on the record. Without the wire between record and nozzle several things can influence the quality of the drying.
If the pump (you can modify succion strength by turning a little pot) is too high pressure, and the liquid not enough greasy (for a better word), the record can literally been stopped on the machine because too much succion and not enough liquid. So you better have to use enough liquid and a kind of liquid that « stays » on the surface unlike Mofi’s for example.
with the thread you can use any cleaning liquid and use very little quantity.
Sometimes if the quantity of liquid is not enough the sliding of the arm becomes erratic. It stops for half a second and after that it restarts but too fast and in the end you have some droplets on the record.
if you use the l’Art du Son of the Keith Monks fluids with enough quantity there is no pb. If I had the choice I would choose with the thread, but that’s me.

 

[Hamburger]

I will try to explain best as I can in English : with the help of the wire, the arm slides more easily on the record. Without the wire between record and nozzle several things can influence the quality of the drying.
If the pump (you can modify succion strength by turning a little pot) is too high pressure, and the liquid not enough greasy (for a better word), the record can literally been stopped on the machine because too much succion and not enough liquid. So you better have to use enough liquid and a kind of liquid that « stays » on the surface unlike Mofi’s for example.
with the thread you can use any cleaning liquid and use very little quantity.
Sometimes if the quantity of liquid is not enough the sliding of the arm becomes erratic. It stops for half a second and after that it restarts but too fast and in the end you have some droplets on the record.
if you use the l’Art du Son of the Keith Monks fluids with enough quantity there is no pb. If I had the choice I would choose with the thread, but that’s me.

Hi cuntigh,
Thank you very much for the explanation, I completely understood what you were describing. It was also what I suspected but I have not lived with a threadless system in everyday use, so I could only imagine.

My way of interpretation would be that the thread creates a consistent air-gap for the suction to slide properly on a surface.

 

[cuntigh]

You said it better than me and with less words.