Just When You Thought You've Seen It All

[slowGEEZR]

My wife does this to her face all the time, but her's is green/blue colored. She definitely does not sound better afterward.

Good one!

 

[NorthStar]

...Yeah, but her face is breathing healthier by having the pores cleaned and cleansed.

 

[mep]

I don't believe anyone is saying that the glue fixes damaged grooves whereas other forms of cleaning don't.

And I never said they did. I’m the one that said that glue isn’t going to repair physical damage to records and lots of noisy records have groove damage.

But the glue method will remove a substantial amount of crud in and on the grooves where (in some cases) multiple cleaning passes would be necessary. And it's not so time consuming, since you're not standing there waiting for the glue to dry. Just apply it, walk away, come back the next day and peel it off. Not a big deal.

And then come back the next day and repeat the process for the other side of the LP. No thanks. I would rather throw that hunk of junk in the trash and buy another copy that lived a better life.

I really hate to potentially contaminate my RCM cleaning brushes, RCM turntable and environment by working with extremely dirty records.

Me too, which is why I would throw them away. Unless you are dealing with a super-rare valuable record that belonged to your grandmother’s uncle’s cousin twice removed, I’m giving it the heave-ho.

You naysayers have little to contribute except that you don't have any experience with it. --Bill

I’m not a naysayer, I’m just saying I can’t be bothered to take a record that is ruined and attempt to make it less ruined. My idea of fun isn’t spreading glue on a LP, waiting 24 hours to peel it off, repeat the process on the other side, and hope it sounds a little better. A couple clicks of the mouse, and I can probably find a really good copy.

 

[Hxt1]

I tried it on a $2 copy of 'after the gold rush' years ago.
That $2 still sounds better than the $29 re-issue I bought to replace it with.
I wasnt't afraid to try it, of course.
I have to say, some tend to treat audio as a religion... Stunning.
Having a spirited debate over a technique, process, or practice is all fine and dandy... IF youv'e actually tried, and tested said technique. Otherwise your'e just arguing opinion against experience.
Starts to look silly after a bit.
Can we hear from an expert audiophile who's actually tried it.... and didn't find it effective?
I see two camps here: the folks who have tried it, say it works, and like the results; And the folks who haven't tried it.

 

[NorthStar]

---I did not try it, but I'm a firm believer. :b

* And with your post above you just confirmed my belief. :b

 

[jdandy2]

I'm pretty certain one could have played these ... though with noise transferred from the now clean vinyl.

Soundproof.......The hardened glue you removed is a positive impression of the vinyl grooves, mountains not valleys, similar to what would be considered a stamper. They would not playable.

 

[NorthStar]

---Good catch Dan! :b

 

[FrantzM]

I tried it on a $2 copy of 'after the gold rush' years ago.
That $2 still sounds better than the $29 re-issue I bought to replace it with.
I wasnt't afraid to try it, of course.
I have to say, some tend to treat audio as a religion... Stunning.
Having a spirited debate over a technique, process, or practice is all fine and dandy... IF youv'e actually tried, and tested said technique. Otherwise your'e just arguing opinion against experience.
Starts to look silly after a bit.
Can we hear from an expert audiophile who's actually tried it.... and didn't find it effective?
I see two camps here: the folks who have tried it, say it works, and like the results; And the folks who haven't tried it.

So True

 

[sombunya]

I bought an Aynsley Dunbar wlp on Blue Thumb. Looked beautiful, even in bright sunlight. Sounded like bacon and eggs.

I tried the glue method using Tite-bond. Applied it, let it dry until clear. Peeled right off leaving what appeared to be a perfect negative impression of the disc.

If it helped, it was a minor improvement, if any.

Obviously I have no idea if the artifacts I heard are from debris or groove damage. It did come off cleanly and certainly didn't hurt the sound.

I wouldn't try it on decent disc as a matter of course, I just tried it on that one because I really had nothing to lose. I also tried it on an old KING RECORDS disc, the really fragile kind that don't bend. Came off cleanly from that one too, although I'm not really prepared to try it on my Midnighters LP on Federal 548.

As for having any irreplaceable vinyl records, out of my 2000 or so I can only think of one that I have that truly could not be replaced.

This one.

 

[trh8654]

If one wants to make a fortune, he would be better served figuring out how to re-virginize something else.

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.

I've been working on this, and have a theory that I think will work. problem is getting test subjects. So far, no luck.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

I don't believe anyone is saying that the glue fixes damaged grooves whereas other forms of cleaning don't.

NO form of cleaning, steaming, enzymes or whatnot will fix or substantially improve damaged grooves. Worse, toothbrushes, the VPI Nylon brush and a few others will damage grooves just by their use/overuse by creating fine scratches lengthwise on the groove walls. It takes very very little change on the wall to be quite audible. I've not heard of anything that is going to remove that type of damage, though Last will help by reducing friction (and therefore noise) somewhat.

[aside:] I have wondered at times whether or not a very soft buffing brush or rotary attachment (slow speed) might smooth such aberrations enough to make a difference and without otherwise damaging sharp directional changes of the groove. Probably not. I haven't tried it. But it would seem as though some time of controlled polishing might work.​

​

But the glue method will remove a substantial amount of crud in and on the grooves where (in some cases) multiple cleaning passes would be necessary. And it's not so time consuming, since you're not standing there waiting for the glue to dry. Just apply it, walk away, come back the next day and peel it off. Not a big deal.

I really hate to potentially contaminate my RCM cleaning brushes, RCM turntable and environment by working with extremely dirty records. You could pre-rinse or even pre-wash in the sink, but you still risk contamination of your carefully handled cleaning brushes from tap water (at the very least) to muddy gunk remaining in the grooves. (experience, not heresay or opinion). The glue method really works well in these cases, because it is chemically vinyl based. It won't/can't stick to plastics and vinyl, but does stick to most anything else, and leaves no residue on vinyl.

You naysayers have little to contribute except that you don't have any experience with it.

--Bill

+1

Bill sums it up nicely here.
I’m going to give it a go on an expendable LP and see how we go.

 

[Neil.Antin]

+1

Bill sums it up nicely here.
I’m going to give it a go on an expendable LP and see how we go.

A few items you may wish to consider:

Wood glue should be mostly polyvinyl acetate (the same co-polymer used in the record formula) or variations thereof, and water. Depending on manufacturer and whether for interior or exterior use, wood glue can have other ingredients. The white/cream colored version should be polyvinyl acetate while the yellow version can be a modified polyvinyl acetate. The products are generally acidic with pH between 4 and 2.5. Use a quality product such as Titebond™ Original Wood Glue or Titebond™ II Premium and apply a thick uniform coating and allow the wood glue to fully cure/dry for 24 hours.

While the polyvinyl acetate (PVA) is the same co-polymer used in the record formula, it is not "chemically vinyl based". One of the axioms of chemistry is that Like Dissolves Like. If the wood glue PVA was chemically vinyl based, it would dissolve the record which it does not. When the PVA is mixed with the PVC and then pressed under heat, a new copolymer is formed - polyvinylchloride-acetate (PVCa).

Otherwise, when you peel the PVA wood-glue from the record, it will have a very high static charge that you will need to deal with.

This is all provided as info only, it's not a method I use, and I have no other info to provide.