Is this a good or bad engineer?

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
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Assuming his organizational skills had little to no effect on his engineering abilities, could go either way. He sure does seem busy..

That's what I was going to say. Organizational and cleaning skills do not indicate whether one is a good engineer. Kind of like posting a pic of audio gear and asking how it sounds by looking at it. Of course, a near complete lack of information is rarely a cause to abstain from judgement... ;)
 

andromedaaudio

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I am also an engineer , keeping things organized and tidy is of utmost importance to keep oversight , in the mechanical world a good technician is most of the time a tidy and organized one , but there are exceptions off course .
Designers are probably a different breed , but it helps a lot
 

JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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Organized chaos. I bet he knows exactly where everything on that desk is.

Micro, nah, I just have a lot of DIY friends so I see a lot of breadboards and SPICE diagrams.
 

GaryProtein

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One of the members here did pick the right name. You can see it if you google messy engineer desk.
 

NorthStar

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Messy Engineer Desk (Google's results):



Guess who that desk belonged to?
 

Mosin

[Industry Expert]
Mar 11, 2012
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I had a good friend for about 30 years who was an electronics engineer who invented, among other things, digitally controlled fireworks control panels. He worked out of his house. His large basement was so completely filled up with test equipment, boxes, parts, cable spools, electronic components, tools, etc., that there was only a narrow aisle through which one could walk to the back wall of the basement. You will think I am exaggerating when you read this but his dining room table and most of his living room and den looked like a lot the work bench in the photo. There was almost no room to walk anywhere in the house.

Here's the logic to it all...

A large scale operation has the resources and manpower to methodically organize a given project. Leftover materials from previous projects are sold, and replaced as the need requires. Underlings clean up all the mess after a hard day's work. The space is leased, bought, or built according to need, and sometimes even to a projected need.
At the end of a finite workday, everybody clocks out, and goes home.

There are mavericks in this world, however...

Those guys detest timeclocks, filing cabinets, purchasing agents, requisition forms, and anything that even smells like a restraint. They don't leave the house because that's where they work. They are guys on the phone with a friend at 3:00AM discussing an idea that awakened them from an uneasy sleep. That's when they mistakenly order the wrong size screws from MacMaster-Carr. Oh, well. Those go on the floor with the other wrong screws because one never knows when they might come in handy. Some projects don't really pan out, so they go on the floor with the screws. Then, there are projects in flux. They had to be put on hold because a paying customer just showed up. During that build, yet another great idea came to mind. A piece of test equipment stopped working, though. It will get fixed later, but one is needed now, so that gets ordered. Then, there is repetitiveness. Working on the same project all the time is boring, so there are always others in the works. Those projects need their own tools, materials, space, etc. Speaking of space, there isn't any left. And, so it goes...

But...

Once in awhile, a great design comes to fruition. Or, at least that's the hope. ;)
 

Groucho

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Amir, hope you'll forgive me. ...The cat was already out of the hat. :b

? www.computerhistory.org/atchm/an-analog-life-remembering-jim-williams/

I have the utmost respect for people who can push forward the frontiers of analogue circuitry (low noise, low distortion, low power, high speed, low offset etc.), but I'm not particularly impressed with The Living Room Thermometer! This is clearly 'just a bit of fun', but it does highlight that this particular engineer rejected computers until the end. Obviously (?) he would have known that an analogue/digital/software blend would be the 'optimal' solution for such a trivial application, but if he was so set against computers does this mean that he rejected potentially-elegant solutions in more serious aspects of his work? For example, a self-calibrating system can be an excellent alternative to expensive or otherwise unachievable analogue accuracy i.e. the system uses cheap-and-cheerful analogue circuitry, but occasionally runs a calibration phase where the system self-tests and can then remove offsets, and compensate for gain errors, in software. I suspect that this person, even if he saw the potential of such an approach, would go through contortions to avoid it, creating elaborate circuits to mimic what software can do in a couple of lines of code.

To recognise and build the analogue/digital/software hybrid requires system level thinking; to build it requires either a person who is skilled in many disciplines, or the coordination of a number of engineers who may be 'individualists' like this person. It is an uphill struggle. Engineered solutions often seem 'clunky' and ugly, and I think it is easy to see why. But I think this is changing. The problem has been bypassed by the 'democratisation' of engineering. Smartphone 'apps' can harness a multitude of analogue sensors with a software core and, at a lower level, microcontroller boards are now a cinch for anyone to use. The purity and simplicity of the idea of rotating a knob and seeing a number on a screen change is now fully exposed rather than being hidden behind makefiles, circuit diagrams, data sheets, soldering irons. The number and types of people who can now experiment with ideas in engineering must have risen hugely.
 
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microstrip

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I have the utmost respect for people who can push forward the frontiers of analogue circuitry (low noise, low distortion, low power, high speed, low offset etc.), but I'm not particularly impressed with The Living Room Thermometer! This is clearly 'just a bit of fun', but it does highlight that this particular engineer rejected computers until the end. Obviously (?) he would have known that an analogue/digital/software blend would be the 'optimal' solution for such a trivial application, but if he was so set against computers does this mean that he rejected potential elegant solutions in more serious aspects of his work? For example, a self-calibrating system can be an excellent alternative to, potentially, unachievable analogue accuracy i.e. the system uses cheap-and-cheerful analogue circuitry, but occasionally runs a calibration phase where the system self-tests and can then remove offsets, and compensate for gain errors, in software.

To recognise and build such a system requires system level thinking; to build it requires either a person who is skilled in many disciplines, or the coordination of a number of engineers who may be 'individualists' like this person. It is an uphill struggle. Engineered solutions often seem 'clunky' and ugly, and I think it is easy to see why. But I think this is changing. The problem has been bypassed by the 'democratisation' of engineering. Smartphone 'apps' can harness a multitude of analogue sensors with a software core and, at a lower level, microcontroller boards are now a cinch for anyone to use. The purity and simplicity of the idea of rotating a knob and seeing a number on a screen change is now fully exposed rather than being hidden behind makefiles, circuit diagrams, data sheets, soldering irons. The number and types of people who can now experiment with ideas in engineering must have risen hugely.

I think there is some misunderstanding about the The Living Room Thermometer. It is not an industrial engineering project, it is a synopsis of brilliant fine analog concepts that became an iconic homage to Jim Williams.

Fortunately we have the equivalent of Jim in the digital domain - talented people who research in the depths of subjects such as silicon integration, applied mathematics, algorithms and signal processing. These people are the foundation of the knowledge that due o the "democratization of engineering" as you say, people are working with in their daily activity of engineering.
 

Groucho

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Aug 18, 2012
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I think there is some misunderstanding about the The Living Room Thermometer. It is not an industrial engineering project, it is a synopsis of brilliant fine analog concepts that became an iconic homage to Jim Williams.

Fortunately we have the equivalent of Jim in the digital domain - talented people who research in the depths of subjects such as silicon integration, applied mathematics, algorithms and signal processing. These people are the foundation of the knowledge that due o the "democratization of engineering" as you say, people are working with in their daily activity of engineering.

I did say The Living Room Thermometer was "just a bit of fun".

Yes, I am sure we have the equivalent people in the digital domain, but I think you miss my point which is that engineering can be a very narrow pursuit carried out by certain 'eccentric' individuals. Until recently, the applications for engineering and the engineering itself were devised by the same eccentric people - leading to the 'clunky' systems we are familiar with. There was a very definite roadblock to progress which the advent of the smartphone and microcontroller development kits has, thankfully, sidestepped. We'll still need the narrow specialists to do the donkey work of meeting EMC and all that, but anyone can now throw together some hardware and software to experiment with advanced algorithms to enable robots to walk over rubble, or whatever. Such experiments previously required the input of grizzled old hands who were hostile to anything outside their particular discipline and often acted as a brake on progress.
 

ack

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May 6, 2010
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The desk of an engineer:



Without doing any googling, do you think he was a good or bad engineer?

So this appears to belong to a Jim Williams??? I don't know who he is.
 

amirm

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Apr 2, 2010
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OK since a few of you did what I would do, i.e. ignore the instructions and google :D, let me add more to the answers provided.

Jim Williams was not just a good engineer, but a revered God in analog world to just about every engineer. Not because he invented some big thing. He did not. What he did was teach all of us how to be an engineer for real. When you go get a degree in engineering, you are not taught a single practical thing. You are supposed to learn that later. One of those ways was to sit there and study what we call "App Notes" or application notes. App notes are the chip manufacturer's demonstration of what you could do with their ICs using just a few additional parts. This is where Jim Williams comes in. While working for leaders of analog ICs like National Semiconductor and Linear Technologies, he wrote literally thousands of such app notes.

Here is an example from Jim Williams on how to use just one Linear Tech (LT) part and a couple of transistors to build a power amplifier:



To an engineer coming out college who still has no clue how to design a power amp, such circuits and accompanying text and measurements were gold mines. What was even better was when a collection of these were put together in a book like this:



I still have mine and they were the most fascinating reading I ever did. An op amplifier or two acting as a multiplier? A log function? A synthesizer? Such things made electronics real for many of us. And no person had a larger role by far in this that Jim Williams. A man that I did not know when I was learning all that I was learning from app notes.

So his job was not to create an ipod but to build little prototypes that demonstrated a practical application for certain chip, to then allow someone have the skills to design an ipod. In that sense, he was the engineer's engineer. His job was to teach the designers of your audio equipment, not build anything for end users.

As to his workbench, when you work with analog parts, there is no sane way to keep your desk clean. You are dealing with hundreds of little parts, wires stripped and cut, etc. Part of the "fun" is digging through such piles and having the satisfaction to find a part in there! :) Here is a short video of Jim Williams at his home repairing a scope but giving a glance of his life prior to that:


The picture we saw was actually his lab. Engineers have two work spaces. Their desk and the lab. They design at their desk. They test and fix things in the lab. Since his sad fatal stroke in 2011, Linear Tech has made an exhibit of one of those lab desk as it was:



For us as engineers, it is the sign of greatness that Jim had. This is his office in the same company:



And that bench was one of four he used. This is another area in his lab:



So much cleaner. The story goes that he kept that desk so messy as to keep others from walking away with his parts and tools! Since labs are shared by everyone in the company, the story rings true.

Think of Jim Williams as the best teacher you had in school or college that taught you the most. They wouldn't be famous for inventing anything. But would be one of the most important people in your professional life.

We, the engineers, all lost a great teacher in 2011. Messy desk and all. Rest in Peace Mr. Williams. I owe you a lot.
 

Hi-FiGuy

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Amir, hope you'll forgive me. ...The cat was already out of the hat. :b

? www.computerhistory.org/atchm/an-analog-life-remembering-jim-williams/

Scroll down to the bottom of the article and click the analog humor pics and expand each one, made me chuckle. My dad was an EE at Hughes Air Craft for hi entire career. I can relate to a lot of those. He designed some pretty serious TSS and was often consumed by it.
 

NorthStar

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Scroll down to the bottom of the article and click the analog humor pics and expand each one, made me chuckle. My dad was an EE at Hughes Air Craft for hi entire career. I can relate to a lot of those. He designed some pretty serious TSS and was often consumed by it.

Indeed, we see the good humor he had. This is a great thread...thanks Amir in presenting us to one great audio analog engineer.

And rest in peace sir Williams Jim.
 

microstrip

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Brilliant engineers usually have open minds.

Quiz 2 : Who is the electronics engineer mostly known for a famous book in electronics that dedicated the last three decades to the search for extraterrestrial intelligence?
 

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NorthStar

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Brilliant engineers usually have open minds.

Quiz 2 : Who is the electronics engineer mostly known for a famous book in electronics that dedicated the last three decades to the search for extraterrestrial intelligence?

Raymond Kurzweil?

EDIT: Make that Paul Horowitz?
 
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rando

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Unexpectedly, I came across a puzzle of "Jim Williams Famous Bench" his former bosses at Linear Technology had made before removing, this, his other lab bench that didn't go into a museum exhibit. Bought it on merit of photo alone with no idea of the story behind it.

Opening the box to discover a short bio on the inside cover set off an enjoyable evening of chasing up AES speeches and body of work in analog circuitry of someone I'd otherwise have never known existed. By chance one of the last links discovered lead to this thread.

0730201116a.jpg

0730201117a.jpg

0730201117c.jpg

ASMR joke almost writes itself. Apparently 6 years ago was a gentler time.
 

DonH50

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Jim was probably the best "non-engineer" engineer I ever knew (physics degree) though I only worked with him briefly. Bob Dobkin is still at Linear (now part of ADI) AFAIK. Jim Williams, Bob Pease, Bob Widlar, etc. were giants in the industry sorely missed by us "analog dinosaurs". All were quite characters and the old after-session dinosaur meetings were tresure trove of tales combining nostalgia and incredible technical expertise (I was fortunate to attend a few). Steve Wurcer and others are still with us, fortunately, along with a host of other known and unknown giants (as in any industry).
 
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