If tape is so good why does it record so poorly?

[DasguteOhr]

the difference between the BAT phono and tape pre would just be the eq curve......

RIAA bass +20db /20hz high-20 db/20khz
NAB bass +8db /20hz high -16db /20khz
CIRR bass flat 0db high 14-16 /20khz
taken from the head please correct if i'm wrong

 

[Foxbat]

the difference between the BAT phono and tape pre would just be the eq curve......

That is correct... ideally I wish I had a bit more gain, but it is OK for what I am doing.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

so not a problem buying the phono and redo curve then....

 

[Foxbat]

Correct. You may have to work on the head to preamp interface a bit.

 

[Atmasphere]

We've built a few of our preamps with switchable tape EQ. Tape opens the door to EQ- some tapes are NAB, some IEC1 (CCIR) and newer ones IEC2. IME coming up with a worthy selector switch was one of the bigger issues. We had to get ours custom built.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

SEIDENs are pretty good imo

 

[Foxbat]

SEIDENs are pretty good imo

Yes, I agree.

 

[Kingrex]

I have an amazing

If going tube the Ampex 351 electronics are excellent. They must be properly refurbished and you might want to change the EQ from NAB to IEC1 or IEC2. I've seen the 351 electronics used with the Ampex 300, 350 and 440 transports. These transports are not gentle with tapes so you have to learn a technique called 'magnetic braking' and there are no tape counter or search functions.

If solid state I would look at a Studer, like the A80. Otarai made some nice machines as well.

Thank you. Hmm, do I need another tape deck. I have no room. But it sure would be nice to make a good mix tape.

 

[Kingrex]

If going tube the Ampex 351 electronics are excellent. They must be properly refurbished and you might want to change the EQ from NAB to IEC1 or IEC2. I've seen the 351 electronics used with the Ampex 300, 350 and 440 transports. These transports are not gentle with tapes so you have to learn a technique called 'magnetic braking' and there are no tape counter or search functions.

If solid state I would look at a Studer, like the A80. Otarai made some nice machines as well.

So I started looking and the Ampex 351 is an external electronic. If I were to pair it with say an Otari, I am seeing on this page that the Japanese record heads on the Otari are not that good. I was hoping for an all in one, this is a good unit for a reasonable price that is optimized for recording. The playback is less important.
If I were to pair it with an Ampex deck, I guess the tape handling is not that big a deal. I would only be loading a reel, filling it piece by piece. It would be new tape. When I was done the tape would be played back on the Otari with outboard preamp.

FWIW with the Otari, when I want to stop the tape, I hit FF, let it come to a stop, then hit stop when the tape is not moving. I wish the otari had a Library rewind. It is really hauling tape when its near the end. I hate to let it just wind out as it spins slapping the tape for too long.

 

[Kingrex]

What if I were to get another Otari and have the record head changed out. Then wire that out to an external record in preamp.

I actually know a guy who is looking to take the Nakamichi BX300 and make it a double speed, half track machine. That would double the speed and double the tape material in contact with the head on playback. I have about 30 of the pretty good Chrome Tapes. For some reason I ended up holding onto all that. Maybe I should circle around with him. That would make a fun unit that easily sits on a shelf.

 

[DasguteOhr]

telefunken v76 microphone amplifiers work fine. adjustable gain

SEIDENs are pretty good imo

2 pole 3 position switch make before break

https://de.farnell.com/elma/01-1234/drehschalter-60grad-schaltwinkel/dp/1876076

Earlier I would have recommended to convert the Telefunken microphone amplifier, adjustable gain 2 filters available that have to be changed. but the things have become so expensive 3000-7000 € mono




it will be difficult to find something better in terms of sound

 

[andromedaaudio]

That is correct... ideally I wish I had a bit more gain, but it is OK for what I am doing.

If its fairly easy to add a tape selector switch / tape EQ curve , why isnt it added to the phonostage by most manufacturers.
It might get more people into tape which will be good for everybody who loves magnetic tape .
More people more good recordings , may be new machine design etc

 

[adrianywu]

There are many interesting choices, unfortunately one of our applications calls for pretty high voltage. Jensen paper in oil caps handled it with no issues, while sounding good. But most modern parts have relatively low limits.

I have had experiences with different coupling caps in my power amps, which drive the midrange horn drivers directly at a sensitivity of 111dB/W. It is always the coupling caps that get noisy first. I have gone through a range of boutique brands, and most of them don't last more than a year or two before they become noisy. I guess with speakers at "normal" sensitivity of 90dB/W or thereabouts, this poses no problem, but in my system, this is a real pain. And I am using 630VDC caps with a B+ of only 450V. I even had a cap shorting out and destroying one of my Takatsuki 300Bs, which was the last straw. At the end, I put in Wima FKP caps, and they are so quiet. Residual noise went from 3mV with other caps down to <1mV. Much cheaper too.

 

[adrianywu]

We've built a few of our preamps with switchable tape EQ. Tape opens the door to EQ- some tapes are NAB, some IEC1 (CCIR) and newer ones IEC2. IME coming up with a worthy selector switch was one of the bigger issues. We had to get ours custom built.

I use latching relays to switch between EQ circuits, actually soldering the caps and resistors directly onto the pins of the relay. Works pretty well for me.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Has anyone tried these ?
Auricap

 

[Foxbat]

I have had experiences with different coupling caps in my power amps, which drive the midrange horn drivers directly at a sensitivity of 111dB/W. It is always the coupling caps that get noisy first. I have gone through a range of boutique brands, and most of them don't last more than a year or two before they become noisy. I guess with speakers at "normal" sensitivity of 90dB/W or thereabouts, this poses no problem, but in my system, this is a real pain. And I am using 630VDC caps with a B+ of only 450V. I even had a cap shorting out and destroying one of my Takatsuki 300Bs, which was the last straw. At the end, I put in Wima FKP caps, and they are so quiet. Residual noise went from 3mV with other caps down to <1mV. Much cheaper too.

I have horns with the same sensitivity as yours, and with two tube monoblocks and the preamp ON you can't tell the system is working, you need to put your ear to the tweeter to hear anything. In my experience caps, even running at 600V, are not a source of noise. They can do other things, for instance, their CD leakage can affect the operating point, but noise is not my concern.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

my equally sensitive system is also dead quiet
a matter of sensible design, good layout and grounding scheme IMO

 

[Atmasphere]

So I started looking and the Ampex 351 is an external electronic. If I were to pair it with say an Otari, I am seeing on this page that the Japanese record heads on the Otari are not that good. I was hoping for an all in one, this is a good unit for a reasonable price that is optimized for recording. The playback is less important.
If I were to pair it with an Ampex deck, I guess the tape handling is not that big a deal. I would only be loading a reel, filling it piece by piece. It would be new tape. When I was done the tape would be played back on the Otari with outboard preamp.

FWIW with the Otari, when I want to stop the tape, I hit FF, let it come to a stop, then hit stop when the tape is not moving. I wish the otari had a Library rewind. It is really hauling tape when its near the end. I hate to let it just wind out as it spins slapping the tape for too long.

Some years back I made a recording and used two machines running at the same time to make dual master tapes. One was an Otari (I do not recall which one, but it was a 2-channel 1/4" machine with balanced and single-ended inputs) and the other a modified Ampex using the stereo 354 electronics, run by an outboard tube regulated power supply. At the end I had two master tapes. The one on the Otari sounded quite good but sounded better on the Ampex. The Ampex tape played back on the Otari sounded better than the Otari tape played on that machine. Ultimately the Ampex tape played on the Ampex machine sounded the best. That was the one we used for the LP and CD release.

 

[Bruce B]

Here's what I've used for years... (2) A80-RC MkII with Flux heads going out to Doshi tape pre

 

[microstrip]

Some years back I made a recording and used two machines running at the same time to make dual master tapes. One was an Otari (I do not recall which one, but it was a 2-channel 1/4" machine with balanced and single-ended inputs) and the other a modified Ampex using the stereo 354 electronics, run by an outboard tube regulated power supply. At the end I had two master tapes. The one on the Otari sounded quite good but sounded better on the Ampex. The Ampex tape played back on the Otari sounded better than the Otari tape played on that machine. Ultimately the Ampex tape played on the Ampex machine sounded the best. That was the one we used for the LP and CD release.

I have read in tape forum that we should never copy a tape using two equal machines - all the characteristic periodic imperfections of the machine - no mechanical system is perfect - will be doubled. Surely this advice considered that the quality of all the machines involved was similar.