I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!

[ddk]

Perhaps David but being outside the magic ratio of 1.25 gives me some pause. Wilson speakers were designed collectively to be set up in the exact same fashion. I also disagree about no toe in. EVERY manual for every Wilson speaker ever made has the same set up guidelines. Are you saying you know better than Dave and how he designed his speakers. If done correctly it is tantamount to only a very slight toe in. Use a laser light as it helps immensely

Not saying I know more than DW but I think that he came up with a simple universal setup formula for people to follow because there are so many ways to mess up speaker placement in a room. It’s difficult to get it right by yourself and most dealers aren’t equipped to do it for the client. No different than tonearm setup and the 92 degree target !
david

 

[Steve Williams]

Not saying I know more than DW but I think that he came up with a simple universal setup formula for people to follow because there are so many ways to mess up speaker placement in a room. It’s difficult to get it right by yourself and most dealers aren’t equipped to do it for the client. No different than tonearm setup !
david

David

It's like someone coming to you and telling you that they know more than you about the proper set up of your AS 2000. IN fact if memory serves me, several of your clients who own the AS2000 did that very thing and I am betting that that didn't sit well with you

 

[Kingsrule]

Perhaps David but being outside the magic ratio of 1.25 gives me some pause. Wilson speakers were designed collectively to be set up in the exact same fashion. I also disagree about no toe in. EVERY manual for every Wilson speaker ever made has the same set up guidelines. Are you saying you know better than Dave and how he designed his speakers. If done correctly it is tantamount to only a very slight toe in. Use a laser light as it helps immensely

From the pictures I see of your room, it's like a shoe box with your spks very close to the side wall/curtains, thus requiring lots of toe.
Large, expansive rooms, like rocketman's are a whole different acoustic arena. Basically there is no side wall. Many more options to get things as desired.

 

[rockitman]

Guys

What is under the Nothing Rack? Looks like a stone slab of some sort...

1/2" plate Steel, 24x36". It was the top plate from my Herzan AVI Isolation Lab Table that did not work out for my needs.

 

[Kingsrule]

1/2" plate Steel, 24x36". It was the top plate from my Herzan AVI Isolation Lab Table that did not work out for my needs.

Did u bolt it to the floor? If not, how does it sit flat?

 

[rockitman]

From the pictures I see of your room, it's like a shoe box with your spks very close to the side wall/curtains, thus requiring lots of toe.
Large, expansive rooms, like rocketman's are a whole different acoustic arena. Basically there is no side wall. Many more options to get things as desired.

Exactly. This no toe setup would not work on my prior setup. We shall see where they end up. I started toeing a little last night and returned them to straight a head. Still not sure. I'm enjoying the journey to getting the perfect position. Room volume matters !

 

[rockitman]

Did u bolt it to the floor? If not, how does it sit flat?

the plate is sitting on numerous small furniture slider felt discs. No rocking, solid as a rock. The weight of the TT and rack is in excess of 1500 lbs. The plate is snug to the floor.

 

[rockitman]

Also worthy of note was the success of my floor support project. David surprised me we a Tasmanian Devil jump in the air while the AS2000 was playing with a Koetsu Coralstone Diamond cart. Not a skip to be heard !

 

[ddk]

David

It's like someone coming to you and telling you that they know more than you about the proper set up of your AS 2000. IN fact if memory serves me, several of your clients who own the AS2000 did that very thing and I am betting that that didn't sit well with you

Not the same thing Steve, you’re talking about the type of stand they use under the tt which by itself has hardly any setup it’s the tonearm cartridge setup which is difficult and what makes the most difference. Many come with a simple how to instructions to get you going and in the ballpark but to get the home run you need to go past those instructions and that’s when you go beyond. Same thing with room acoustics the designer will solve many of your basic issues but the next step forward is setting up and making adjustments. In Chris’s case you have a grand space with beautiful acoustics, to take the head in the vice toed in method is the wrong approach, of course IMO. As someone who’s been in manufacturing since the 80’s I can tell you that we’re not infallible and can always learn things in the field from some clients.

david

 

[rockitman]

Not the same thing Steve, you’re talking about the type of stand they use under the tt which by itself has hardly any setup it’s the tonearm cartridge setup which is difficult and what makes the most difference. Many come with a simple how to instructions to get you going and in the ballpark but to get the home run you need to go past those instructions and that’s when you go beyond. Same thing with room acoustics the designer will solve many of your basic issues but the next step forward is setting up and making adjustments. In Chris’s case you have a grand space with beautiful acoustics, to take the head in the vice toed in method is the wrong approach, of course IMO. As someone who’s been in manufacturing since the 80’s I can tell you that we’re not infallible and can always learn things in the field from some clients.

david

Thank you for getting my head out of the vice. My sig other appreciates the great sound too without having to sit in my DFC chair.

 

[Steve Williams]

Hi David

I have used Wilson speakers for 25 years and have never tried to second guess. In a large room I do agree with the postulates however I have concern about being outside the magic ratio

Only once in all of those 25 years have I ever heard a Wilson set up contrary to Dave's recommendations and that was last year at Alma Music when I heard the Alexia st up with a ratio of 0.88 and this was in a very large and wide room. I was stunned at how good the room sounded

Alexandre and Fabio are geniuses when it comes to speaker and room set up

Christian you might want to reach out to Alexandre (asiufy) or even better commission him to set up your speakers. He is an authorized Wilson dealer

 

[ddk]

Thank you for getting my head out of the vice. My sig other appreciates the great sound too without having to sit in my DFC chair.

My pleasure!
david

 

[ddk]

Hi David

I have used Wilson speakers for 25 years and have never tried to second guess. In a large room I do agree with the postulates however I have concern about being outside the magic ratio

Only once in all of those 25 years have I ever heard a Wilson set up contrary to Dave's recommendations and that was last year at Alma Music when I heard the Alexia st up with a ratio of 0.88 and this was in a very large and wide room. I was stunned at how good the room sounded

Alexandre and Fabio are geniuses when it comes to speaker and room set up

Christian you might want to reach out to Alexandre (asiufy) or even better commission him to set up your speakers. He is an authorized Wilson dealer

It comes down to experience Steve, I’m sure that after a number of textbook deliveries you started learning beyond the textbooks and changing things accordingly. It’s the difference between an experienced mechanic, plumber, engineer etc. and one just out of school. Speaker setup is physics, sound waves within a finite space and those laws don’t change for anyone or any brand. The variables are dimensions, materials and construction which are difficult to navigate for many people so one can avoid dealing with the effects of these variables with toeing in and beaming the sound to the listening position as a compromise. If they’re valid a magic ratio is only a starting point if they’re, doesn’t meant that you’re restricted by it the rest is up to the person and their understanding of the principles involved.

david

 

[jeff1225]

Not the same thing Steve, you’re talking about the type of stand they use under the tt which by itself has hardly any setup it’s the tonearm cartridge setup which is difficult and what makes the most difference. Many come with a simple how to instructions to get you going and in the ballpark but to get the home run you need to go past those instructions and that’s when you go beyond. Same thing with room acoustics the designer will solve many of your basic issues but the next step forward is setting up and making adjustments. In Chris’s case you have a grand space with beautiful acoustics, to take the head in the vice toed in method is the wrong approach, of course IMO. As someone who’s been in manufacturing since the 80’s I can tell you that we’re not infallible and can always learn things in the field from some clients.

david

Rule #1 of marketing, don't be afraid to let your consumer tell you how they want to use your product. The Apple iPhone launched with the inability to load apps, and Apple was clear that none native apps would not be allowed, just like their computers.

Now we all know where that ended up.

 

[Steve Williams]

It comes down to experience Steve, I’m sure that after a number of textbook deliveries you started learning beyond the textbooks and changing things accordingly. It’s the difference between an experienced mechanic, plumber, engineer etc. and one just out of school. Speaker setup is physics, sound waves within a finite space and those laws don’t change for anyone or any brand. The variables are dimensions, materials and construction which are difficult to navigate for many people so one can avoid dealing with the effects of these variables with toeing in and beaming the sound to the listening position as a compromise. If they’re valid a magic ratio is only a starting point if they’re, doesn’t meant that you’re restricted by it the rest is up to the person and their understanding of the principles involved.

david

Rule #1 of marketing, don't be afraid to let your consumer tell you how they want to use your product. The Apple iPhone launched with the inability to load apps, and Apple was clear that none native apps would not be allowed, just like their computers.

Now we all know where that ended up.

The biggest room I ever heard big Wilson speakers in was several years ago at THE LA Audio Show where Music Lovers from Berkeley/San Francisco had XLF's which must have been 20 feet apart and they too had a very gentle toe in. The sound stage was magnificent

As far a delivering babies David, it's been the same way since the Dawn of Man (unless of course you know differently)

 

[ddk]

The biggest room I ever heard big Wilson speakers in was several years ago at THE LA Audio Show where Music Lovers from Berkeley/San Francisco had XLF's which must have been 20 feet apart and they too had a very gentle toe in. The sound stage was magnificent

As far a delivering babies David, it's been the same way since the Dawn of Man (unless of course you know differently)

My point was the opposite, that you’re The Doc and having done so many deliveries you know a lot more that someone staring out.

david

 

[Steve Williams]

I got it. My point is that the rules are the rules and in that arena, any divergence from the norm only invites problems ( as well as law suits )

 

[ddk]

I got it. My point is that the rules are the rules and in that arena, any divergence from the norm only invites problems ( as well as law suits )

There’s such a thing as good and bad doctors Steve and their decisions matter even if they’re within the legal “boundaries”. Our experience with the birth of our first child at NY Presbyterian by a named doctor and his interns that he pounced on us without notice was very negative followed by their bitchy nursing staff made an already bad experience even worse that to other lasting negative personal experiences, all the things that they did were legal I suppose and textbook but not right. We knew better with the 2nd one and picked our doctor not according to his fame but his character and knowledge and we couldn’t have had a better team even with complications that didn’t exist the first time. Post natal care and the character of the nursing team was incredibly pleasant too. I used the example above because this is a world you’re intimately familiar with.

david

 

[Steve Williams]

Understood

 

[Gardener]

Understood

Very diplomatic Steve

Christian amazing room glad to see the airforce still hanging in there