How fast does electricity travel?

FrantzM

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Apr 20, 2010
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#41
Hi

As usual when it comes to differences that disappear under the scrutiny of knowledge removal.. Arcane concepts of the most minute nature are unearthed .. These seem to pop up in Audio , rarely in video where a fixed image tends to throw a wrench in the cogs of speculation ... The image is there to see in all its glory .. You either see a difference or you don't ...All of these are electrical phenomenon (those you mentioned) but what happens at the speaker is mechanical in nature ..My level of knowledge of things psycho-acoustics ( a much misused term BTW) or of psychology of perception is microscopic ... I am straining to understand what's relevant to the ear... If I were to take it as a system , linear or non, I still see it as responding to these three elements Frequency, Level and Phase (temporal relationship between elements of the signal). The Hearing apparatus works in the time and frequency domains ... That much is known ... The parameters that seem to matter in these two domains are FR, Phase responses and level ...

Care to add a few more parameters? I am all ears ...
 
May 30, 2010
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#42
. The Hearing apparatus works in the time and frequency domains ... That much is known ... The parameters that seem to matter in these two domains are FR, Phase responses and level ...

Care to add a few more parameters? I am all ears ...
I must say I can not understand what means "The Hearing apparatus works in the time and frequency domains" and how this sentence is connected to the parameters you refer.
I was addressing distortions in the general sense - alterations of the original signal. They can not be explained by simple changes in the FR.
 

Folsom

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#43
Forgive me, I know this topic is ancient...

But I was entertained to read someone talking about what I've tried to say numerous times on electron flow. However I noticed no where did anyone cover a fundamental thing about silver, except to proclaim and inaccuracy. Now some of you with gear that can measure such a thing might know better than I, but I believe the statement that silver is slower in nature is 100% false for music. The slower the electron flows because of density, the faster the domino affect occurs. But this can result in bad sound for systems that need a warmer touch of softness. This might be why tube people are much more interested in silver as it naturally distorts the edge a person would otherwise find off-putting.

Furthermore, all of this might add a little validity to connectors and traces not making 90% bends are technically faster because the distance is shortened. But that might be moot given that the distance within an appliance is a mere say 8 inches of difference, but fed by 8ft cables. Low mass (accountable sizes) would exert the same function.
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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#44
I have not done a double blind (because I had to have someone switch out the cables) but I have done blind tests, and I can definitely hear a difference and correctly identified the two cables. I don't know what I'm hearing - it's not FR and phase - but I'm hearing something
Oh no! What will the objectivist do now once there sacred blind test has failed to reveal your ignorant and/o fraudulent claims.
I proffer that two approaches exist 1)You just stick your head in the sand. 2)Or concede that perhaps there is something there that we just don't know how to measure yet. I humbly suggest the latter is the true scientific approach.
 
Oct 1, 2010
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#45
'Folsom' your post has several misunderstanding about how electricity works. It's time for you to go to the library, get a book on basic electricity and start studying.

Then move on to "The Art of Electronics" by Horowitz & Hill.
 

Folsom

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#46
'Folsom' your post has several misunderstanding about how electricity works. It's time for you to go to the library, get a book on basic electricity and start studying.

Then move on to "The Art of Electronics" by Horowitz & Hill.
Are you implying the original post by Gary is wrong as well? I'm curious because if I'm wrong, I wonder how he's right. That's why I asked if someone had measured, they might know better.

Something tells me you might be thinking about skin affect in relation to connectors I mentioned; and I'd say it's still relevant, even more so. Also maybe you mean how easily a conductor gives up an electron, since silver does it more easily, but how would that negate what I mentioned?

Also you're on a forum and you're suggesting relocation to a library... that's not very useful. The topic of this thread isn't "Good books to read".
 
Jun 21, 2013
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#47
... Or concede that perhaps there is something there that we just don't know how to measure yet. I humbly suggest the latter is the true scientific approach.
I'll concede the possibility that there's something there. But I'll wait until I see some evidence, determined by a scientific approach, before I accept that it is there. Remember, if it's audible, it's measurable. The measurements we do now don't show any reason for the audible difference that we believe we hear. We can adjust the parameters that we measure by amounts easily measurable, but they don't affect what we hear. We need to focus on measurement techniques that reliably record the differences, and then analyse these to determine the mechanisms which cause them.

Meanwhile, I'll go with the most likely explanation.
 

rbbert

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Dec 12, 2010
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#48
I'll concede the possibility that there's something there. But I'll wait until I see some evidence, determined by a scientific approach, before I accept that it is there. Remember, if it's audible, it's measurable...
Ah, but measurable how? What instruments are you proposing to use to make these measurements? You pretty much have to start with a microphone; how do you ensure that this microphone is in fact
sensitive to the appropriate audio parameters? Or do you know of a microphone which accurately responds in exactly the way our ears do?
 

Folsom

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Oct 26, 2015
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#49
Ah, but measurable how? What instruments are you proposing to use to make these measurements? You pretty much have to start with a microphone; how do you ensure that this microphone is in fact
sensitive to the appropriate audio parameters? Or do you know of a microphone which accurately responds in exactly the way our ears do?
An example two DAC's, a Trinity and a $200 Parasound. They don't sound the same but the typical frequency plot won't show a difference with the same file. The difference between connecting high resolution bits is enough information to make us change our preference. We probably have measured whatever difference there is but it appears abysmally small and unimportant, to the point typically people probably can't measure it without some pretty nice stuff. However no one but some jerk on the AVS forum would ever believe they're the same.
 

Groucho

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Aug 18, 2012
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#50
An example two DAC's, a Trinity and a $200 Parasound. They don't sound the same but the typical frequency plot won't show a difference with the same file. The difference between connecting high resolution bits is enough information to make us change our preference. We probably have measured whatever difference there is but it appears abysmally small and unimportant, to the point typically people probably can't measure it without some pretty nice stuff. However no one but some jerk on the AVS forum would ever believe they're the same.
A vain Emperor who cares about nothing except wearing and displaying clothes hires two weavers who promise him the finest, best suit of clothes from a fabric invisible to anyone who is unfit for his position or "hopelessly stupid". The Emperor's ministers cannot see the clothes themselves, but pretend that they can for fear of appearing unfit for their positions and the Emperor does the same. Finally the weavers report that the suit is finished, they mime dressing him and the Emperor marches in procession before his subjects. The townsfolk play along with the pretense, not wanting to appear unfit for their positions or stupid. Then a child in the crowd, too young to understand the desirability of keeping up the pretense, blurts out that the Emperor is wearing nothing at all and the cry is taken up by others. The Emperor suspects the assertion is true, but continues the procession.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes