How do you "flex" or show nuance of your music system for visitors?

[Bill Hart]

Bill-Whenever I think of Phoebe Snow, the only song that comes into my head is "I like the nightlife, I like to boogie.." from the dreaded disco era when I was young, single, and out haunting bars in search of women. That would have been around 1976-1977. In 1978 I was married and I'm currently doing 35-to life. Anyway, I have several old Columbia pressings of BS&T that sound fantastic except for noise. I have a reissue that leaves me a little cold and if the 45 RPM gets two thumbs up from people that heard it, I will jump on it. If you can convince me that the rest of Phoebe Snow doesn't sound like the song I quoted above, I'm willing to give it a try. As a person I do like her and understand she was never quite the same after her daughter died.

First, that wasn't Phoebe Snow as far as I know. I think it was Alicia Bridges, and I am unaware that Ms. Snow covered that song. If you are saying that Phoebe reminds you of that, well, I can't help you there, Mep.
Ms. Snow was more of a folk-pop singer, who had a huge hit with Poetry Man, but had a bunch of other songs that were quite good. She is still, perhaps, an acquired taste, so i'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.
Now, you ******, I have that stupid disco song stuck in my head. What's that called, when a song gets stuck in your brain?
Ugh!

 

[mep]

Bill. I stand corrected. You are right. The song I was thinking of was sung by Alicia Bridges so therefore I'm wide open to getting some Phoebe Snow music.

 

[Dre_J]

Mark,

You still haven't contributed to the thread with some of your "flex" and nuance selections. What am I to expect when I, one day, make it to Bloomington? At least you know you will get to hear at least one of the "send home" selections I've listed so far.

Where is your list?

Dre

 

[mep]

Dre-I'm still thinking about it, but I promise I will post my thoughts. I have some ideas for sure. In the old days, it would have been the standard list of audiophile chestnuts, but not now. If you ever do make it to Bloomington and manage to come to my house, aside from a great meal and the beverage()s of your choice, I'm pretty sure that within my collection of music I will have plenty of things to put a smile on your face.

And Dre, I hope you have seen some of the jazz LPs I have mentioned here on WBF as being outstanding music and recordings (IMO of course). I would pretty much put most of my jazz LPs in the "must hear" category.

 

[LL21]

Hi Lloyd,

I have the Colin Davis, a couple Solti's (King Super and Stereo Lab reissues) on London, a couple Maazels (Telarc and MoFi), a Metha on London, a Paray on Mercury and a Martinon on EMI. While the Colin Davis is nice and very respectable, I tended to listen to the Solti or the Metha more. None of them, however, can match the Reference Recording for sheer dynamics, excitement, or that "it is the last thing you heard" memory this record leaves you with. Even I am pretty satisfied for a long time after listening to this LP and I have it to play at will. I have the LP right here and each time I look at it the memory of the last playing is still with me. The 4th movement in this performance of this RR 45rpm is a serious shocker.

I would suggest for anyone playing this to start out listening at a low level on the first go-round to make sure nothing clips, jumps, or displaces itself. in other words, don't uncork this thing until you are sure everything is copacetic with playback at higher levels.

Dre

Wow! Thanks for that...very interesting. will look into RR version.

 

[audioarcher]

Ssh. Don't tell the digital crowd that. They will demand all manner of evidence and scientific proof and they would postulate that given a rigorous double-blind test that you couldn't detect the difference between the vinyl copy and a low-rate MP3.

No point in trying to convince the non-believers. They will just have to do their own experiments. It's not like I'm claiming vinyl is always more dynamic. It will depend on the disc or software in question.

 

[audioarcher]

That's great/ be sure and et me know how they play in your system. Based on my last visit, I think you will like them and at the very least they should make your demo pile.

Dre

Will do. I have gotten the bass a little better since your visit. I'm pretty darn happy with the system overall.

Sean

 

[mep]

No point in trying to convince the non-believers. They will just have to do their own experiments. It's not like I'm claiming vinyl is always more dynamic. It will depend on the disc or software in question.

I'm not talking about trying to make converts out of the digital lovers and they will never do their own experiments because the majority of the digital lovers/analog haters don't have any records or a table to play them on. But even so, it won't stop them from piling on.

 

[Groucho]

I'm not talking about trying to make converts out of the digital lovers and they will never do their own experiments because the majority of the digital lovers/analog haters don't have any records or a table to play them on. But even so, it won't stop them from piling on.

The digital lovers are arguing from an intellectual position (of the technical correctness of digital) and find nothing in their experience of listening to digital that contradicts this. So they don't need to do any experiments. However, they are under siege from a movement that claims that the old mass distribution medium of vinyl sounds better than digital - even though many vinyl records are pressed from digital masters. In response to this, they conclude (by pure reason) that the vinyl lovers must be being swayed by something other than the sound, and that only a DBT would reveal this. So you are correct: the digital lovers don't feel they need to do any tests and are recommending them only for the vinyl lovers to show them the error of their ways.

For example, this thread is about flexing one's system. In another thread, talking about early digital recordings, there's a famous recording ( http://open.spotify.com/track/5yKdILP6sQvwzwYo98K7MQ ) in which a bass drum was particularly loud. Apparently it was difficult to cut the LP from it, while maintaining reasonable dynamic range, and it used to make some people's stylus jump out of the groove. So there's an instance where from pure reason it would appear that the pure digital version must be better..?

 

[mep]

The digital lovers are arguing from an intellectual position (of the technical correctness of digital) and find nothing in their experience of listening to digital that contradicts this. So they don't need to do any experiments. However, they are under siege from a movement that claims that the old mass distribution medium of vinyl sounds better than digital - even though many vinyl records are pressed from digital masters. In response to this, they conclude (by pure reason) that the vinyl lovers must be being swayed by something other than the sound, and that only a DBT would reveal this. So you are correct: the digital lovers don't feel they need to do any tests and are recommending them only for the vinyl lovers to show them the error of their ways.

Right. Your position doesn't require any validation, only the analog side needs to undergo validation. I got it.

 

[audioarcher]

I think the DBT experiments thing is a red herring: the digital lovers are arguing from an intellectual position (of the technical correctness of digital) and find nothing in their experience of listening to digital that contradicts this. So they don't need to do any experiments. However, they are under siege from a movement that claims that the old mass distribution medium of vinyl sounds better than digital - even though many vinyl records are pressed from digital masters. In response to this, they conclude (by pure reason) that the vinyl lovers must be being swayed by something other than the sound, and that only a DBT would reveal this. So you are correct: the digital lovers don't feel they need to do any tests and are recommending them only for the vinyl lovers to show them the error of their ways.

I'm not going there. Feel free to believe what you want.

Although most of the posts have been vinyl choices do you have any digital selections you can recommend?

 

[NorthStar]

If only God was an analog entity...

 

[Groucho]

Although most of the posts have been vinyl choices do you have any digital selections you can recommend?

See this post: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...m-for-visitors&p=199875&viewfull=1#post199875

 

[Groucho]

Right. Your position doesn't require any validation, only the analog side needs to undergo validation. I got it.

Just my take on where the arguments come from. If the vinyl lovers can come up with a technical argument that could convince the digital lovers as to why a vinyl pressing from a digital master can sound better than the master..?

 

[mep]

How about using your ears instead of an argument??

 

[NorthStar]

"Everybody knows" - Leonard Cohen

... that analogue sounds more 'real' than digital.

 

[Groucho]

How about using your ears instead of an argument??

That's my point: that the digital lovers feel their system is superior simply by pure reason, so that if their ears told them the vinyl sounded superior on a particular day then they would doubt their ears, not the medium. Hence the talk of expectation bias, DBT etc. to prove the point. I honestly think that is their position.

If my ears were tired or I was in a certain mood I think I might find it soothing to hear music on a slightly muffled, old fashioned valve radiogram. I might even find I could listen to it longer without fatigue than the intense experience of an uber-system. But I could never argue that it was superior. The uber-system would always be what I would play to impress any visitors!

 

[dingus]

5.1:
Genesis - Trick of the Tail DVD-A
Steely Dan - Gaucho SACD , Two Against Nature DVD-A, Everything Must Go DVD-A
Elton John - Tumbleweed Connection, Honky Chateau, Yellow Brick Road, Captain Fantastic all SACD
Midnight Oil - Capricornia DVD DTS

stereo:
XTC - Upsy Daisy Assortment
U2 - Achtung Baby!
Roxy Music - Avalon
Supertramp - Some Things Never Change
The Police - Zenyatta Mondatta, Ghost in the Machine, Synchronicity
Peter Gabriel - Hit
Split Enz - Time and Tide
Neil Finn - Try Whistling This, One Nil
Midnight Oil - 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1, Red Sails in the Sunset, Diesel and Dust, Redneck Wonderland
Fleetwood Mac - Fleetwood Mac
ELO - Face the Music
Crowded House - Time on Earth

 

[MylesBAstor]

The digital lovers are arguing from an intellectual position (of the technical correctness of digital) and find nothing in their experience of listening to digital that contradicts this. So they don't need to do any experiments. However, they are under siege from a movement that claims that the old mass distribution medium of vinyl sounds better than digital - even though many vinyl records are pressed from digital masters. In response to this, they conclude (by pure reason) that the vinyl lovers must be being swayed by something other than the sound, and that only a DBT would reveal this. So you are correct: the digital lovers don't feel they need to do any tests and are recommending them only for the vinyl lovers to show them the error of their ways.

For example, this thread is about flexing one's system. In another thread, talking about early digital recordings, there's a famous recording ( http://open.spotify.com/track/5yKdILP6sQvwzwYo98K7MQ ) in which a bass drum was particularly loud. Apparently it was difficult to cut the LP from it, while maintaining reasonable dynamic range, and it used to make some people's stylus jump out of the groove. So there's an instance where from pure reason it would appear that the pure digital version must be better..?

And engineers and others who continue to bury their head in the sand and continually and consistently ignore everything we've learned and know about human hearing, physiology, adaptation, statistics and testing procedures. Or those parochial twits who refuse to read the literature and only cite what backs their position. That's hardly scientific. To wit, those numbnuts who can't seem to get it through their thick skulls that a given methodology doesn't work for every situation and like Moonies continue to mouth DBT as being the gold standard. Duh, just because it works (or doesn't work) for drug testing, doesn't mean it will work for hearing tests. Or those who pass DBT like Atkinson and Fremer who are then conveniently labelled outliers. End of story.

 

[MylesBAstor]

That's my point: that the digital lovers feel their system is superior simply by pure reason, so that if their ears told them the vinyl sounded superior on a particular day then they would doubt their ears, not the medium. Hence the talk of expectation bias, DBT etc. to prove the point. I honestly think that is their position.

If my ears were tired or I was in a certain mood I think I might find it soothing to hear music on a slightly muffled, old fashioned valve radiogram. I might even find I could listen to it longer without fatigue than the intense experience of an uber-system. But I could never argue that it was superior. The uber-system would always be what I would play to impress any visitors!

And if I were in the mood to have my ears bleed, I'd listen to some '80s digital gear.