Hint of new Magico products

edorr

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May 11, 2010
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There is no duty if the item is shipped back for repairs (unless the distributor is dumb enough, to declare that the product will be upgraded, which will increase its value ...).

But if the product comes back 'repaired', with the same serial #s, there are no extra costs involved. Only some extra paperwork. Been there, done that (shipped form the EU to the US, and then back).

I don't blame you, but you are asking the dealer to sign a document that makes him legally complicit in tax evasion. I can imagine some may be reluctant to do this. Unless I lived in Italy or Greece I would be as a dealer.
 

andromedaaudio

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Jan 23, 2011
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Dont forget the rest of europe edorr , in brussels they invented corruption , its totally run by large corporations/ big banks .
In holland we have a word for it , the government hates thieves because they dont allow competition :D to call this tax evasion is a little stretched imo
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 11, 2010
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In holland we have a word for it , the government hates thieves because they dont allow competition :D

I lived there for 40 years and would not characterize the Dutch government as thieves. Even if you are of the libertarian persuasion that all taxation is "theft", you can't point to blatant self enrichment by public officials. While there is of course massive government incompetence, this is not unique to the public sector. ABN-AMRO still is the incompetence gold standard here (in the USA we have Bank if America).
 

andromedaaudio

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The guy who ran ABN AMRO was a genius when it was a private bank he sold it tops in 2007 (its now bailed out since 2008 )

i m sorry no more off topic
 

Elberoth

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Dec 16, 2012
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You can declare that as an upgrade, not a repair, but even then you will only have to pay duty for the $40k extra (the amount for which the item was improved), not the whole amount of $225k.
 

Luiz Felipe

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Jan 30, 2014
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I think sad when a world wide company create a procedure requesting to send back an equipment to manufactory do not matter why. Each country on the world will have ( or not) procedures to do that, but I have totally sure in some countries as mine is almost impossible go for it where just purchase another unit could be made. In the past some manufactories has worst procedures as painting all boards in white to distributors do not identify any component. But if all distributors in the world must keep a professional service center who must have skills to make any procedure on hi end equipments, I can't understand why create so much costs for costumer (on freight + upgrade), distributor ( for bureaucracy and administrative requests) just to make an upgrade in a equipment.
 

Orb

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Sep 8, 2010
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Really need to know what is involved with the upgrade to be able to really debate whether it is a must or not requirement to be shipped back to Magico.
I am pretty sure some aspects of replacing parts/repair is done with some distributors, but this may be more advanced (or not but does anyone know for sure).

Cheers
Orb
 

stereo

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2012
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Really need to know what is involved with the upgrade to be able to really debate whether it is a must or not requirement to be shipped back to Magico.
I am pretty sure some aspects of replacing parts/repair is done with some distributors, but this may be more advanced (or not but does anyone know for sure).

Cheers
Orb

As I mentioned on another thread, I heard the prototype of the new Q7 while visiting Alon 10 days ago. It is nothing short of amazing. Alon showed me what is involved in the upgrade. Well, it is quite a complex work. Need a complete dismantle of the speaker, both front and back. Both front plates need to be completely remachined. Finished front plate may even have to be rebuilt from scratch in case anodizing is damaged in the machining (which is quite likely). Crossover needs to be rebuilt. Speaker is re-measured and tested after re-assembly.
There is no way a dealer could do that, or even a Magico employee flying around the world. You need a machine shop, the tools for assembly of this monster, the testing equipments.... people underestimate the level of effort required.
 
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Orb

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Sep 8, 2010
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Thanks Stereo that is what I thought.
I think it is great existing owners can take an upgrade option, but people need to realise the onus for shipping is not really Magico's issue in this instance; maybe some distributors may assist with the logistics/some costs and that is where the good ones come into play IMO.

Cheers
Orb
 

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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As I mentioned on another thread, I heard the prototype of the new Q7 while visiting Alon a few weeks back. It is nothing short of amazing. Alon showed me what is involved in the upgrade. Well, it is quite a complex work. Need a complete dismantle of the speaker, both front and back. Both front plates need to be completely remachined. Finished front plate may even have to be rebuilt from scratch in case anodizing is damaged in the machining (which is quite likely). Crossover needs to be rebuilt. Speaker is re-measured and tested after re-assembly.
There is no way a dealer could do that, or even a Magico employee flying around the world. You need a machine shop, the tools for assembly of this monster, the testing equipments.... people underestimate the level of effort required.

Thanks Stereo. That helps to explain the issues involved.

On a different topic, do you think that Magico demoed the new Q7 MkII at CES 2015 with the Qsub and did not tell anyone in order to gauge audience reaction? Pure speculation on my part, but since the speaker had been built they (or any company for that matter) could do this to see the response. They look similar enough that no one would have noticed.

Does it even make sense to do a stealth demo like that?
 

Elberoth

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Dec 16, 2012
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Thanks Stereo. That helps to explain the issues involved.

On a different topic, do you think that Magico demoed the new Q7 MkII at CES 2015 with the Qsub and did not tell anyone in order to gauge audience reaction? Pure speculation on my part, but since the speaker had been built they (or any company for that matter) could do this to see the response. They look similar enough that no one would have noticed.

Does it even make sense to do a stealth demo like that?

Great question !
 

MadFloyd

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May 31, 2010
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Maybe that would explain the bright tweeter that TAS reported?
 

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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To expand on the idea of a stealth demo in a setting such as CES and imagine any company bringing any gear: If people don't like the sound, they would leave learning soon thereafter that a new, improved Mk II version is just around the corner, which promises better sonics and addresses the perceived shortcomings of the demo, so they might still be interested in the new version. And if they do like the sound, wow, the MkII is coming out and it will sound even better. So few people have actually heard flagship speakers, or any other top gear, that with different equipment and room conditions and settings and music, it would be very difficult to tell with certainty that something was indeed different about the equipment. Imagine the scenario with a DAC or preamp looking identical to the former version.

Though exceedingly deceptive, it could potentially be a very worthwhile opportunity for the manufacturer. They could gauge listeners' impressions and spin the marketing to their advantage as long as the word did not get out.
 

stereo

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Sep 1, 2012
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Thanks Stereo. That helps to explain the issues involved.

On a different topic, do you think that Magico demoed the new Q7 MkII at CES 2015 with the Qsub and did not tell anyone in order to gauge audience reaction? Pure speculation on my part, but since the speaker had been built they (or any company for that matter) could do this to see the response. They look similar enough that no one would have noticed.

Does it even make sense to do a stealth demo like that?

A few points:
- I was not in CES, but I have several friends who heard the Q7mk1 there with Qsub18, and thought it was the best demo Magico ever did. See also what Fritz was writing about it. I think that Jonathan needs to buy himself a new hear aid.
- it was not the new Q7 in CES, for the simple reason that what I heard was a prototype, with unfinished front plate (no anodizing), 10 days ago. The Q7 mk2 was not ready for CES.
- the tweeter shares the same technology as the Mpro. Bright is the last attribute I would think about. It is just not there... but all music information is there, even some you never heard before... very special feeling. All harshness, sibilance on voices is gone. Madfloyd can comment more from his experience with Mpro
 
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PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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A few points:
- I was not in CES, but I have a several friends who heard the Q7mk1 there with Qsub18, and thought it was the best demo Magico ever did. See also what Fritz was writing about it. I think that Jonathan needs to buy himself a new hear aid.
- it was not the new Q7 in CES, for the simple reason that what I heard was a prototype, with unfinished front plate (no anodizing), 10 days ago. The Q7 mk2 was not ready for CES.
- the tweeter shares the same technology as the Mpro. Bright is the last attribute I would think about. It is just not there... but all music information is there, even some you never heard before... very special feeling. All harshness, sibilance on voices is gone. Madfloyd can comment more from his experience with Mpro

It was pure conjecture Stereo. Only a thought or question with no basis in fact. More a thought exercise than anything else. I have read Fritz's comments about the demo. He seemed very impressed.

I have heard Madfloyd's M Project twice. I agree with your description of the tweeter. It is incredible. The entire speaker is absolutely seamless and a real achievement, IMO.
 

caesar

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May 31, 2010
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Thanks Stereo. That helps to explain the issues involved.

On a different topic, do you think that Magico demoed the new Q7 MkII at CES 2015 with the Qsub and did not tell anyone in order to gauge audience reaction? Pure speculation on my part, but since the speaker had been built they (or any company for that matter) could do this to see the response. They look similar enough that no one would have noticed.

Does it even make sense to do a stealth demo like that?

No! You would miss out on the publicity.
 

caesar

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May 31, 2010
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Maybe that would explain the bright tweeter that TAS reported?

Guys, remember: Those who like magico, and buy into wolf's design philosophy and like it. Those who don't, don't. Valin's comments in the ces report are just a way to drum up interest. magico is a blockbuster brand and blockbuster brands draw flies, regardless of whether people like particular blockbuster brand or not .... a lot of magazine readers mean they can ask for more money from those companies who choose to advertise in their magazine...

I'm sure everyone is aware of the old reviewer trick of anointing something great and not being able to find any flaws with it, until the new version comes out. If you don't, look back at some early wilson watt puppy reviews. seems like every new version is a game changer until the next version, which is now best...seems like a similar pattern with magico m5 to q5 to project m... when valin reviews the m project or q 7 v2, it will be the greatest thing ever as, after all, valin and wolf share the same taste...
 

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