Help me choose a Conrad Johnson pre-power

[Lissnr]

I do think you are going up the right path with CJ. Up until very recently I was the proud owner of Premier 12 monos and they are spectacular amps simply because they don't sound SPECTACULAR, they are simply musical in every way. SO natural...Personally I found they were at the ideal point in CJ's evolution between somewhat overly warm and liquid sounding ...into the newer more 'streamlined' type of sound...(I've never used that term before but I'm sure you catch my drift). It's probably more power than you NEED but that means it's probably "Just right". They are a pure class act ...reliable and effortlessly musical. As for pre-amps, I didn't use a CJ but I would think your remaining budget should aspire to the best model CJ offers as I know the 12's will step up to the task of delivering their best and vice/versa. A GREAT amp! Good luck!

 

[LL21]

I do think you are going up the right path with CJ. Up until very recently I was the proud owner of Premier 12 monos and they are spectacular amps simply because they don't sound SPECTACULAR, they are simply musical in every way. SO natural...Personally I found they were at the ideal point in CJ's evolution between somewhat overly warm and liquid sounding ...into the newer more 'streamlined' type of sound...(I've never used that term before but I'm sure you catch my drift). It's probably more power than you NEED but that means it's probably "Just right". They are a pure class act ...reliable and effortlessly musical. As for pre-amps, I didn't use a CJ but I would think your remaining budget should aspire to the best model CJ offers as I know the 12's will step up to the task of delivering their best and vice/versa. A GREAT amp! Good luck!

And what amp do you own now after the mighty premier 12s?

 

[XV-1]

I used to be a Linn/Naim active boy 15 years back.

If it were my $ I would buy the use ET5 that is for sale on gon - 230 volt. I also know of a slightly used, as in months ET5 available here in Australia. In fact buy this one, it is now cheaper in $A - http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/ind...eamplifier-price-reduced/?hl=+conrad++johnson

Btw, all cj pre amps voltage can be changed easily by changing the taps on the transformer.

Listen to the cj et5 with your Wavac amp. You will get better gain structure duye to the cj being a high gain preamp.

If you like what the cj pre amp does to your system, then look for a cj amplifier.

I have owned up the ss prem350. The cj tube amps are better. Buy the highest power cj amp that you can afford. I have yet to hear a lower power cj amp sound better than one of their higher power models of the same range.

Have fun

 

[Lissnr]

Choosing to give up my loveliest of ladies (the Premier 12's) was indeed one of the toughest decisions in my audio "Career" ( just an expression, as I'm simply an addicted enthusiast who's been hooked since high school and hasn't stopped listening and upgrading equipment for over 35 years since). I also need to add that I am NOT particularly well-to-do as I have been known over the years to literally scrimp on meals (rice and beans anyone?) for months on end with the sole purpose of saving enough $$$$ to make the next 'jump' up the equipment ladder...
With that said, giving up the Premier 12's WAS a calculated leap-of-faith...After all, not only am I convinced my system sounds far better than it ever had before [simply from their addition], but all my trusted listening-ear friends also agreed ("Don't ever sell the CJ' s!!!"). I had to keep reminding myself how I couldn't possibly afford to 'move up' without sacrificing the current 'occupant' . This, after all, being the seemingly endless cycle ...the infamous Merry-Go-Round most of us dream of stepping off once Audio Nirvana has finally been reached... Pity us fools...(but that's a whole other topic).
So, what was it? Well, I listen quite a bit but I also read a lot of these audio venues and one of the most highly touted and seriously acclaimed equipment manufacturer was a small 'specialty builder' situated in the pacific northwest named Paul Weitzel. His pre-amp, simply called "The Dude" had accrued quite a following and I made the decision that my Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Special Edition "Plus" should finally have its sonic attributes made available to some other lucky audio soul so that I could drink from the cult-following cup of Paul's company: TRL (Tube Research Labs). And so "The Dude" was in fact the pre-amp handling the Premier 12's [and helping them sing as well as they had]. BTW, IMHO: the best marriage of 2 different manufacturers I've ever known...
Time passed.
The Merry-Go-Round went round n round n round...
Then one day, I was having a friendly phone conversation with Paul...A VERY likeable and easy going kind of fellow and I happened to...as I often do... mention how great my system was sounding and with due accolades placed squarely on the Dude/CJ combination. But I couldn't resist asking him if in fact one of HIS amps "Would necessarily be a noticeable improvement over the CJ's...or simply "different" with their own mix of virtues?".
Guess his answer? CJ's: "Really nice"
My Amp(s)? "The perfect marriage..."
Me, "Well, knowing how out-of-my-league a new pair would cost" (about $20K...)"If you ever hear of any used or trade ins...please let me know..."
A slight pause and then, "As a matter of fact, I am almost finished building a new pair of monos for another Dude owner and his current pair..."
Was the push that sent my CJ 12's into the listings, then into the room of their new (VERY lucky and highly appreciative) owner; and had me somewhat frantically scrambling to scratch up the $$$$ difference to pay for their replacements...
Their replacements? Once his new amps were ready we immediately shipped his trade-ins (now MINE!!!) back to Paul for a complete 'freshening up'.
New? : almost everything that matters in a 10 year old amp including transformers, as well as new Duelund Cast Copper Caps..(to match the ones I had recently installed in my Dude... ) color matched anodized faceplates to match my Dude's too...
And so, to finally answer the question: my Premier 12 replacements are Tube Research Labs GT 200 mono blocs.
From their fully tube regulated power supplies to their quad of new Tung Sol KT-150's per mono [running in pure triode mode] and delivering well over 200wpc, they are stupendous. Sweet, delicate, 3D, tangible...yet iron fisted beasts with enough seemingly inexhaustible power and dynamics to make your most monstrous solid state monos jealous...
IMHO....
So yes, I sold the Premier 12's and for a worthy replacement...but that replacement was indeed one of a very few 'rare finds' that could justify the swap...and that's saying an awful lot for those truly exceptional CJ's.
Good luck with your search and happy Lissn'n

 

[LL21]

Choosing to give up my loveliest of ladies (the Premier 12's) was indeed one of the toughest decisions in my audio "Career" ( just an expression, as I'm simply an addicted enthusiast who's been hooked since high school and hasn't stopped listening and upgrading equipment for over 35 years since). I also need to add that I am NOT particularly well-to-do as I have been known over the years to literally scrimp on meals (rice and beans anyone?) for months on end with the sole purpose of saving enough $$$$ to make the next 'jump' up the equipment ladder...
With that said, giving up the Premier 12's WAS a calculated leap-of-faith...After all, not only am I convinced my system sounds far better than it ever had before [simply from their addition], but all my trusted listening-ear friends also agreed ("Don't ever sell the CJ' s!!!"). I had to keep reminding myself how I couldn't possibly afford to 'move up' without sacrificing the current 'occupant' . This, after all, being the seemingly endless cycle ...the infamous Merry-Go-Round most of us dream of stepping off once Audio Nirvana has finally been reached... Pity us fools...(but that's a whole other topic).
So, what was it? Well, I listen quite a bit but I also read a lot of these audio venues and one of the most highly touted and seriously acclaimed equipment manufacturer was a small 'specialty builder' situated in the pacific northwest named Paul Weitzel. His pre-amp, simply called "The Dude" had accrued quite a following and I made the decision that my Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Special Edition "Plus" should finally have its sonic attributes made available to some other lucky audio soul so that I could drink from the cult-following cup of Paul's company: TRL (Tube Research Labs). And so "The Dude" was in fact the pre-amp handling the Premier 12's [and helping them sing as well as they had]. BTW, IMHO: the best marriage of 2 different manufacturers I've ever known...
Time passed.
The Merry-Go-Round went round n round n round...
Then one day, I was having a friendly phone conversation with Paul...A VERY likeable and easy going kind of fellow and I happened to...as I often do... mention how great my system was sounding and with due accolades placed squarely on the Dude/CJ combination. But I couldn't resist asking him if in fact one of HIS amps "Would necessarily be a noticeable improvement over the CJ's...or simply "different" with their own mix of virtues?".
Guess his answer? CJ's: "Really nice"
My Amp(s)? "The perfect marriage..."
Me, "Well, knowing how out-of-my-league a new pair would cost" (about $20K...)"If you ever hear of any used or trade ins...please let me know..."
A slight pause and then, "As a matter of fact, I am almost finished building a new pair of monos for another Dude owner and his current pair..."
Was the push that sent my CJ 12's into the listings, then into the room of their new (VERY lucky and highly appreciative) owner; and had me somewhat frantically scrambling to scratch up the $$$$ difference to pay for their replacements...
Their replacements? Once his new amps were ready we immediately shipped his trade-ins (now MINE!!!) back to Paul for a complete 'freshening up'.
New? : almost everything that matters in a 10 year old amp including transformers, as well as new Duelund Cast Copper Caps..(to match the ones I had recently installed in my Dude... ) color matched anodized faceplates to match my Dude's too...
And so, to finally answer the question: my Premier 12 replacements are Tube Research Labs GT 200 mono blocs.
From their fully tube regulated power supplies to their quad of new Tung Sol KT-150's per mono [running in pure triode mode] and delivering well over 200wpc, they are stupendous. Sweet, delicate, 3D, tangible...yet iron fisted beasts with enough seemingly inexhaustible power and dynamics to make your most monstrous solid state monos jealous...
IMHO....
So yes, I sold the Premier 12's and for a worthy replacement...but that replacement was indeed one of a very few 'rare finds' that could justify the swap...and that's saying an awful lot for those truly exceptional CJ's.
Good luck with your search and happy Lissn'n

That is a G-R-E-A-T story! And that is the way to do it...I love that stuff. Well done you! Congrats! You earned that one. Stick around, stick around, be patient, ask questions, probe, be curious, build the relationship and then one fateful day, fate comes knockin' on your door and you are right there standing with your hand on the knob...nice one.

I have heard great things about TRL in the highest audio circles. that is some serious stuff from what I have been told by people who have almost literally 'had everything' in their system at one time or another...7 figures ($USD) kinds of systems. Love the story.

 

[Lissnr]

Well, Thank You LL21! Building an audio system, as most of us know, is quite unlike many other hobbies. Discovering synergistic matches between components and tailoring our own likes and dislikes when it comes to personal priorities is certainly a tangled web we weave. While frustrations are an integral part of the game they also help highlight the satisfaction of putting together a really enjoyable system. Keeping track of all the influential variables in the "satisfaction formula" from room acoustics to cabling to isolation devices...all the 'less obvious factors' that go along with the actual choice(s) [of the components themselves]...all add to the mix. It's a great hobby.
BTW LL21, you have a formidable combination there! I'm sure it was a labor of love. May I ask what are your room dimensions?

 

[LL21]

Well, Thank You LL21! Building an audio system, as most of us know, is quite unlike many other hobbies. Discovering synergistic matches between components and tailoring our own likes and dislikes when it comes to personal priorities is certainly a tangled web we weave. While frustrations are an integral part of the game they also help highlight the satisfaction of putting together a really enjoyable system. Keeping track of all the influential variables in the "satisfaction formula" from room acoustics to cabling to isolation devices...all the 'less obvious factors' that go along with the actual choice(s) [of the components themselves]...all add to the mix. It's a great hobby.
BTW LL21, you have a formidable combination there! I'm sure it was a labor of love. May I ask what are your room dimensions?

Thank you...its been a labor of love indeed...6 years in the making, one component at a time...all on a list of items i have been tracking since 2007. all second hand/demo, etc. 17.5 x 33 x 8...no room treatments since its the living room. May try to the new Stillpoints panels since the Dealer has asked to bring them by...we shall see.

 

[Lissnr]

That is a formidable room size and I'm sure it's perfect for those glorious Wilson's . Wow. When you are listening in a room of that size then acoustic treatments become far less important. I can only imagine how that entire combination of components going through those flagships of yours must sound... Grandiose to say the least! Congrats on what must have taken a lot of work to assemble and ultimately dial in. Again: "Wow!"

 

[LL21]

That is a formidable room size and I'm sure it's perfect for those glorious Wilson's . Wow. When you are listening in a room of that size then acoustic treatments become far less important. I can only imagine how that entire combination of components going through those flagships of yours must sound... Grandiose to say the least! Congrats on what must have taken a lot of work to assemble and ultimately dial in. Again: "Wow!"

Thank you. It sure has been fun and very rewarding.

 

[Sunnyboy1956]

Pani
Did you zero in on your choice of pre/power amps ? I had a CJ CT5 and LP70S combo for over 7 years that I have traded in for new amps. Superb combination that drove a pair of Quad 2905s. Send me a PM and I will put you in touch with my dealer in case they are still available
Cheers
Pradeep

 

[Pani]

I finally got to hear the CJ Classic sixty SE and ET3SE combination, driving a pair of Vandersteen Trio. To me the sound was a bit too coloured, especially in the midrange. It was warm and inviting but I simply could not get over the colouration. I agree CJ was never touted to be neutral but probably it was more than I could accept. The rest of the chain was pretty well arranged with all Siltech cables and a Ayre C5xe CD player. So no CJ for me. At the moment I am looking at Esoteric amplifiers, especially A-100 or the solid state a03.

 

[LL21]

I finally got to hear the CJ Classic sixty SE and ET3SE combination, driving a pair of Vandersteen Trio. To me the sound was a bit too coloured, especially in the midrange. It was warm and inviting but I simply could not get over the colouration. I agree CJ was never touted to be neutral but probably it was more than I could accept. The rest of the chain was pretty well arranged with all Siltech cables and a Ayre C5xe CD player. So no CJ for me. At the moment I am looking at Esoteric amplifiers, especially A-100 or the solid state a03.

Interesting...good to know. I am a big CJ fan, but I use my CJ GAT with Class A SS amplification and Wilsons so a different approach...and more similar to the one you may be now looking at with Esoteric's Class A SS amp. Have heard very good things about it...actually from a CJ dealer with whom I have done business for probably 15+ years now. Definitely worth a try!

 

[Pani]

Interesting...good to know. I am a big CJ fan, but I use my CJ GAT with Class A SS amplification and Wilsons so a different approach...and more similar to the one you may be now looking at with Esoteric's Class A SS amp. Have heard very good things about it...actually from a CJ dealer with whom I have done business for probably 15+ years now. Definitely worth a try!

I think CJ preamps are easily more neutral and universal than the power amps that is why they are used in many systems outside CJ. At the level of GAT things cannot go too wrong anyway.

 

[LL21]

I think CJ preamps are easily more neutral and universal than the power amps that is why they are used in many systems outside CJ. At the level of GAT things cannot go too wrong anyway.

I think you may be right...it is certainly what I am told. I have read the ET3SE is definitely a descendant of the CJ GAT in sound...perhaps you 'mix' the CJ preamp with an amp more suited to your tastes? Or will you go full Esoteric...perhaps integrated?

 

[egidius]

Contrary to popular belief Tannoys have never been SET friendly, even the early Monitor Reds and Golds need some current to get their large cones going. I'm not familiar with your particular speaker but I know a thing or two about both vintage and modern Tannoys. Even with the legendary Monitor Golds that were much lighter and more efficient than their current drivers needed quality ss amplification to come life and show how dynamic they really are. The 10" Monitor Reds in the Cornettas were the only exception to the rule. My point here is that you should try your speakers with some quality ss amplification before settling on tubes. The big difference will be the quality of your bass. Pleasant but fat and colored with tubes or dynamic and detailed with ss. Try it.

My I also throw in a name: Go look for a Berning ZH270 ZOTL design amp - use it first as an Integrated. Then go and get a fabulous pre that gives what you need.
In my experience, the Berning made my much beloved Premier 11 sound broken. But it can sound cool in the wrong circumstances, as I consider it completely open.
A Berning will not loose value if you will decide against it.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I finally got to hear the CJ Classic sixty SE and ET3SE combination, driving a pair of Vandersteen Trio. To me the sound was a bit too coloured, especially in the midrange. It was warm and inviting but I simply could not get over the colouration. I agree CJ was never touted to be neutral but probably it was more than I could accept. The rest of the chain was pretty well arranged with all Siltech cables and a Ayre C5xe CD player. So no CJ for me. At the moment I am looking at Esoteric amplifiers, especially A-100 or the solid state a03.

How do you know it's not the Vandersteens you're complaining about?

 

[egidius]

The more I think about it...the more I think high current high power adds a lot of value to these speakers. Benefits are not just linearity...it's a fullness even in midrange...because you get much greater dynamic and micro dynamic nuances thru the mids...powerful mids even in jazz can make it quite a beautiful sound. It's not just about tone or mellifluous sound. Also, I think cj's most famous historical amp was their Premier 8...275 watts...their most powerful. They did an XS version which was half the power...but CJ even said they felt SETs sounded good with some speakers but great on few...and I think downright bad on a few. So CJ has been well regarded for their more powerful amps.

When I had the Premier 11 I once heard two Premier 8's and was smitten - but they were beyond my means.
Later I switched to Berning and was equally smitten, but in a different direction. This is an amp, I hold in very high esteem.

When I heard the LP 140, it did not move my heart at all, but maybe i simply had moved on because of my Berning.

 

[microstrip]

How do you know it's not the Vandersteens you're complaining about?

People have their preferences, but IMHO pairing a 85 dB/W speaker with the Classic 60 was not be a good mach and will probably result in a colored sound, mostly in demos where sound levels are usually louder than typical listening in one's system and amplifiers are overdriven. As always you get what you mix ...

 

[MylesBAstor]

When I had the Premier 11 I once heard two Premier 8's and was smitten - but they were beyond my means.
Later I switched to Berning and was equally smitten, but in a different direction. This is an amp, I hold in very high esteem.

When I heard the LP 140, it did not move my heart at all, but maybe i simply had moved on. (And the LP140 has a questionable quality reputation here in Switzerland)

My LP140Ms worked flawlessly for two years, as has the ART. Perhaps some people were playing around with the driver tubes that was a big no no....

 

[MylesBAstor]

When I had the Premier 11 I once heard two Premier 8's and was smitten - but they were beyond my means.
Later I switched to Berning and was equally smitten, but in a different direction. This is an amp, I hold in very high esteem.

When I heard the LP 140, it did not move my heart at all, but maybe i simply had moved on. (And the LP140 has a questionable quality reputation here in Switzerland)

My LP140Ms worked flawlessly for two years, as has the ART. Perhaps some people were playing around with the driver tubes that was a big no no....